Liturgy of St Basil, Holy Thursday and Saturday - changes to Cherubic hymn

[Andreas Moran]

I was reading about the Great Entrance and was reminded that the cherubic hymn is replaced on Holy Thursday by the pre-communion prayer:


'Of Thy mystical supper, O Son of God, accept me this day as a communicant; for I will not speak of Thy mystery to Thine enemies, nor will I give Thee a kiss like Judas, but like the thief I acknowledge Thee: remember me, O Lord, in Thy kingdom',

and is replaced on Holy Saturday in the vesperal Liturgy of St Basil by:


'Let all mortal flesh keep silence, and stand with fear and trembling, and take no thought for any earthly thing; for the King of kings and Lord of lords cometh to be slain and given as food for the faithful. [Then the Entrance] Before Him go the choir of angels, with every principality and power, the many-eyed cherubim and the six-winged seraphim covering their faces and crying out the hymn: alleluia, alleluia, alleluia.'

I was wondering about the reasons for these changes on just these two days.

For Holy Thursday, it seems clear enough. This is the day of the institution of the Eucharist and the betrayal by Judas.

For Holy Saturday, I was not so sure of the meaning behind the hymn used or how it differed in meaning from the cherubic hymn. Clearly, Holy Saturday is of great significance, linking Holy Friday and the death of the Lord on the Cross, and the Resurrection on the day of Pascha. Holy Saturday is the Great Sabbath, the day of rest. God rested on the seventh day after accomplishing Creation. Christ said on the Cross, 'it is finished', i.e. accomplished, and likewise rested in the tomb on the Sabbath. The Great Entrance is commonly identified with the Entry into Jerusalem and then with the burial of Christ. But Holy Week is just preceded by Palm Sunday, and by Holy Saturday, the tomb, in the form of the epitaphios, is set forth in the church. So, the cherubic hymn is inappropriate on Holy Saturday. 'Let all mortal flesh keep silence' comes from Habakkuk 2:20, and it is usual to maintain silence as far as possible during Holy Saturday, at least in monasteries. We 'stand with fear and trembling' in anticipation of the mystery of the Lord's resurrection. We 'take no thought for any earthly thing' because nothing compares with the saving passion and resurrection of the Lord Who has died for us and gives us His Body and Blood for our healing and salvation which we pre-eminently think upon at Pascha. This as far as I can get in trying to understand the Paschal significance of 'Let all mortal flesh'. It is clearly appropriate for Pascha and I can see why the cherubic hymn is appropriate for all other occasions. But can anyone take the Paschal meaning of this hymn any further?

[Andreas Moran]

I can only add that the seraphim uphold God's throne which can be symbolised by the altar, and the cherubim which guarded the entrance to paradise and the approach to God's throne now allow entry to paradise and appraoch to God because of Christ's saving Passion and Resurrection.

[Andreas Moran]

I was just wondering if this thread had got 'buried' - or may be it's just not interesting!

[Paul Fowler]

I was just wondering if this thread had got 'buried' - or may be it's just not interesting!


It is interesting Andreas-but like you I am waiting for some answers, because I have none!! Thank you for bringing it up

Paul

[Anthony Stokes]

I'm not completely sure of the meaning for it, I would need to do some research, but "Let all mortal flesh keep silence" is the Cherubic Hymn for The Liturgy of St. James. I'm not up on the history of Holy Week services, but is it possible that the Liturgy of St. James was once served on Holy Saturday, and that this is the only remaining hint of that left?

Subdeacon Anthony





For Holy Saturday, I was not so sure of the meaning behind the hymn used or how it differed in meaning from the cherubic hymn. Clearly, Holy Saturday is of great significance, linking Holy Friday and the death of the Lord on the Cross, and the Resurrection on the day of Pascha. Holy Saturday is the Great Sabbath, the day of rest. God rested on the seventh day after accomplishing Creation. Christ said on the Cross, 'it is finished', i.e. accomplished, and likewise rested in the tomb on the Sabbath. The Great Entrance is commonly identified with the Entry into Jerusalem and then with the burial of Christ. But Holy Week is just preceded by Palm Sunday, and by Holy Saturday, the tomb, in the form of the epitaphios, is set forth in the church. So, the cherubic hymn is inappropriate on Holy Saturday. 'Let all mortal flesh keep silence' comes from Habakkuk 2:20, and it is usual to maintain silence as far as possible during Holy Saturday, at least in monasteries. We 'stand with fear and trembling' in anticipation of the mystery of the Lord's resurrection. We 'take no thought for any earthly thing' because nothing compares with the saving passion and resurrection of the Lord Who has died for us and gives us His Body and Blood for our healing and salvation which we pre-eminently think upon at Pascha. This as far as I can get in trying to understand the Paschal significance of 'Let all mortal flesh'. It is clearly appropriate for Pascha and I can see why the cherubic hymn is appropriate for all other occasions. But can anyone take the Paschal meaning of this hymn any further?

[Andreas Moran]

I read that the liturgy of St James was adapted by St Basil the Great, and his adaptation was adapted by St John Chrysostom. I don't know if the liturgy of St James was the standard liturgy of the Church before the fourth century but it's an intereseting question.

Just to clarify: my question is whether the hymn 'Let all mortal flesh' (not exactly a cherubic hymn) was seen to have to have special meaning for anticipating Pascha which made it suitable only for Holy Saturday, and how far its meaning differed from the cherubic hymn in the liturgies of St Basil and St John Chrysostom.

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

At least in the book The Orthodox Liturgy by Hugh Wybrew it says this hymn Let All Mortal Flesh


seems to have been introduced into the rite of Constantinople...in the 11th or 12th century. It may have been borrowed from the Liturgy of Jerusalem, and was at first an optional alternative on Holy Saturday to the Cherubic Hymn..

By 'Liturgy of Jerusalem' does he mean the Liturgy of St James?

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Andreas Moran]

By 'Liturgy of Jerusalem' does he mean the Liturgy of St James?

I think he must. I'm sure, though, that I read somewhere that Emperor Justinian composed the cherubic hymn and introduced it into the liturgy though whether in substitution for 'Let all mortal flesh' I don't know.

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

I think he must. I'm sure, though, that I read somewhere that Emperor Justinian composed the cherubic hymn and introduced it into the liturgy though whether in substitution for 'Let all mortal flesh' I don't know.

This is probably correct. In my collection of liturgical texts I have three slightly different Orthodox versions of the Liturgy of St James. All of them have Let All Mortal Flesh Keep Silence as the hymn at the Entrance of the Gifts.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Andreas Moran]

I think we have the historical perspective sorted. I should be grateful for responses to the two-part question I posed.

[Christopher]

please forgive me . . . I found some more information that may, or may not, now be of interest . . .

[...] Another feature, which we will note, occurs during the Liturgy of the Faithful, during the Cherubic Hymn. Here the differences in behavior become noticeable immediately. When the hymn begins, the Greeks have the habit of sitting down while the Russians love to kneel. Then, when the Great Entrance with the Holy Gifts begins, the Greeks stand and remain standing, bowing their heads, while the Russians rise from their knees and stand straight (but not all, some make a full prostration. These are those who think that the Holy Gifts have already been sanctified -- a heresy condemned in Moscow in the 17th century). It can be said that for the Greeks, the entrance itself and the commemorations are more important while for the Russians it is the Cherubic Hymn. Nothing in this practice, of course, is prescribed by the Russian Church. On the contrary, a lot has been done, especially in recent times, to explain to the faithful that it is not proper to kneel during the Cherubic Hymn, especially on Sundays, inasmuch as the Gifts have not been sanctified. Nonetheless all these efforts had little effect, so entrenched is the dangerous spiritual tradition, expressed by this practice, of making something "mystical" out of the Cherubic Hymn, the "profound center" of the Divine Liturgy, to the detriment of the Eucharistic Canon and the changing of the Holy Gifts. As for the Greeks, their practice may have an historical explanation since the Cherubic Hymn was introduced into the Liturgy very late, only in the 6th century, in Constantinople. Its primary intended purpose was to fill the silence resulting from the commemoration of the living and the dead at the table of oblation just prior to the Great Entrance. (Incidentally, the introduction of the Cherubic Hymn was subject to contemporary criticism as a strange innovation.) Thus, since the Cherubic Hymn is simply a "filler," it is understandable that the Greeks listen to it while sitting, as is customary during similar moments.

- Some differences between Greek and Russian divine services and their significance (http://www.holy-trinity.org/liturgics/krivoshein-greekandrussian.html) by Basil [Krivoshein] Archbishop of Brussels and Belgium / A report given at the Liturgical Conference at the St. Sergius Theological Institute, Paris, on July 2, 1975

_

[Andreas Moran]

My own experience in Russia is that there is not the erroneous veneration of the gifts at the Great Entrance that apparently there used to be. As for standing or not, there is no choice in Russian churches because there are no seats. Russians remember, though, that it was during the Great Entrance that saints had visions of the heavenly host, the best-known such vision being that of St Seraphim of Sarov. It is right to see the Great Entrance as mystical; the words of the cherubic hymn say so: the choir chant, 'Let us the cherubim mystically representing', and the priest says, 'the King of all is raised on high and invisibly attended by the angelic hosts'. None of this makes the Great Entrance the centre of the liturgy and I know no Russians who think that in seeing the profound mystical nature of the Great Entrance - in its entirety, cherubic hymn and petitions - there is thus detriment to the eucharistic canon. It must be remembered though that the Russians cannot hear the eucharistic canon; the regret Russians feel at this indeed reflects their understanding of it as the heart of the liturgy.

The cherubic hymn clearly is a focus for linking the earthly liturgy with the heavenly. I'm interested to discover how the meaning of 'Let all mortal flesh' is specific to Holy Saturday.

[Olga]

please forgive me . . . I found some more information that may, or may not, now be of interest . . .

[...] Another feature, which we will note, occurs during the Liturgy of the Faithful, during the Cherubic Hymn. Here the differences in behavior become noticeable immediately. When the hymn begins, the Greeks have the habit of sitting down while the Russians love to kneel. Then, when the Great Entrance with the Holy Gifts begins, the Greeks stand and remain standing, bowing their heads, while the Russians rise from their knees and stand straight (but not all, some make a full prostration. These are those who think that the Holy Gifts have already been sanctified -- a heresy condemned in Moscow in the 17th century). It can be said that for the Greeks, the entrance itself and the commemorations are more important while for the Russians it is the Cherubic Hymn. Nothing in this practice, of course, is prescribed by the Russian Church. On the contrary, a lot has been done, especially in recent times, to explain to the faithful that it is not proper to kneel during the Cherubic Hymn, especially on Sundays, inasmuch as the Gifts have not been sanctified. Nonetheless all these efforts had little effect, so entrenched is the dangerous spiritual tradition, expressed by this practice, of making something "mystical" out of the Cherubic Hymn, the "profound center" of the Divine Liturgy, to the detriment of the Eucharistic Canon and the changing of the Holy Gifts. As for the Greeks, their practice may have an historical explanation since the Cherubic Hymn was introduced into the Liturgy very late, only in the 6th century, in Constantinople. Its primary intended purpose was to fill the silence resulting from the commemoration of the living and the dead at the table of oblation just prior to the Great Entrance. (Incidentally, the introduction of the Cherubic Hymn was subject to contemporary criticism as a strange innovation.) Thus, since the Cherubic Hymn is simply a "filler," it is understandable that the Greeks listen to it while sitting, as is customary during similar moments.

- Some differences between Greek and Russian divine services and their significance (http://www.holy-trinity.org/liturgics/krivoshein-greekandrussian.html) by Basil [Krivoshein] Archbishop of Brussels and Belgium / A report given at the Liturgical Conference at the St. Sergius Theological Institute, Paris, on July 2, 1975

_


Fr Christopher, with no disrespect to Abp. Basil intended, the article from which you quoted contains several errors in its description and analysis of Greek and Russian practice.

http://www.monachos.net/forum/showthread.php?p=52655#poststop

[Christopher]

Fr Christopher, with no disrespect to Abp. Basil intended, the article from which you quoted contains several
errors in its description and analysis of Greek and Russian practice.

Glory be to God for all things, Olga! . . .

as mentioned above: "please forgive me . . . I found some more information that may, or may not, now be of interest . . ."

Andreas, I am aware of the theoria experienced during the Great Entrance that St. Serafim experienced, meaning that God granted him theoria (this vision) during the Great Entrance. Lord have mercy!

I pray you find the answer for which you seek. +

Evlogeite!

[Matthew Panchisin]

Dear Fr. Christopher,

I agree with Olga, the article from which you quoted contains several errors.

I'm very interested in hearing your thoughts on the article Father Christopher? What are the traditions in your Church and have you seen significant differences in the Greek Orthodox Churches in America here?

I looked on your profile and did not see any mention of the Metropolis you are with. I do not know who your Bishop is as there are some minor variances of liturgical practices in GOA which are being addressed these days. There are Priests serving within GOA that use some slav traditions and it seems that there has been a blend sometimes of Greek and Russian practice that are being addressed.

Are these matters discussed much within your diocese?

Thank you in advance.

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin

[Christopher]

Actually, Andreas is asking for a mystical understanding of the Cherubic Hymn . . .

I would more than happy to carry this question of yours over to the referenced URL that was provided above.

Evlogeite!


Dear Fr. Christopher,

I agree with Olga, the article from which you quoted contains several errors.

I'm very interested in hearing your thoughts on the article Father Christopher? What are the traditions in your Church and have you seen significant differences in the Greek Orthodox Churches in America here?

I looked on your profile and did not see any mention of the Metropolis you are with. I do not know who your Bishop is as there are some minor variances of liturgical practices in GOA which are being addressed these days. There are Priests serving within GOA that use some slav traditions and it seems that there has been a blend sometimes of Greek and Russian practice that are being addressed.

Are these matters discussed much within your diocese?

Thank you in advance.

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin

[Andreas Moran]

Actually, Andreas is asking for a mystical understanding of the Cherubic Hymn .

Actually, I'm asking for thoughts on the unique pre-Paschal meaning of 'Let all mortal flesh' and so its significance for Holy Saturday.

[Herman Blaydoe]

Actually, I'm asking for thoughts on the unique pre-Paschal meaning of 'Let all mortal flesh' and so its significance for Holy Saturday.

Great and Holy Saturday, our Lord's mortal body is lying silent in the tomb while He breaks the bronze gates of hades and overthrows death.

The mystical Sabbath, the seventh day, the mortal body of God rests in silence. The Messiah is in the tomb and the Resurrection is not yet experienced, the events in hades unknown. The cry of Holy, Holy, Holy and majestic praise seems strange and inappropriate in this time of quiet sadness. What else is there for mortal flesh to do but keep silent? What could be more appropriate? We wept at the Cross. We wept during His burial. We are wept out. We rest in silent anticipation on the Sabbath Day awaiting the time of ultimate joy of Pascha, when the Thrice Holy Hymn will sound in double volume as we break the silence of sadness with joyful noise!

Or so it seems to this bear of little brain.

Herman the not-so-silent Pooh

[Anthony Stokes]

Actually, I'm asking for thoughts on the unique pre-Paschal meaning of 'Let all mortal flesh' and so its significance for Holy Saturday.


It's odd that the two service texts I have of this with commentary, by Bishop Kallistos Ware in the Triodion and Fr. Alexander Schmemann in the OCA's service book, don't say anything about why this hymn is done. They do mention that the service was originally much longer and later in the day, which is another reason that I am thinking maybe it was the Liturgy of St. James originally, and for some reason this hymn carried over at some point as mentioned in an earlier post. But, I'm still not sure why.

Subdeacon Anthony

[Andreas Moran]

What Herman says about the words, 'Let all mortal flesh keep silence' is right, I'm sure. The hymn continues before the Entrance with the words, 'and stand with fear and trembling' for which what Herman says is also apt. The pre-Entrance part of the hymn then has, 'for the King of kings and Lord of lords cometh to be slain and given as food for the faithful'. This is very different from the cherubic hymn ('Let us the cherubim mystically representing, and unto the life-giving Trinity the thrice-holy chant intoning, now lay aside all earthly care.') The use of the present tense, 'cometh to be slain' is probably not a problem because although Christ was slain the previous day on Holy Friday, the slaying must always be expressed to be ever-existent. Christ is indeed to be given as food for the faithful on the following day, Pascha, but also at all times. Are we here getting any nearer to the uniquely Paschal meaning of these words?

[Matthew Panchisin]

This is very different from the cherubic hymn

Is it? In the fuller context of the Divine Liturgy what's the difference?

Perhaps if we could see more clearly a bright day of fullfillment in Christ everything would flow together, that is without a system of thought in place bound in space and time. See threads on undistracted prayer?

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin

[Andreas Moran]

This is very different from the cherubic hymn

Is it?

Yes - the words clearly are not the same.


In the fuller context of the Divine Liturgy what's the difference?

This my question. It has been answered in part by seeing that the cherubic hymn creates a link (not the only one in the liturgy but a very explicit one) between the earthly and heavenly liturgy, and the visions of saints at that point in the liturgy must underline this. Since the sixth century, the Church has reserved the cherubic hymn for all liturgies of St John Chrysostom and St Basil except Holy Thursday (which is easily explained) and Holy Saturday. What I'm trying to get at is the particular Paschal meaning of 'Let all mortal flesh' given that the Church only uses this hymn on Holy Saturday. Herman went some way to answering that question: can we expand on this? Of course, every Saturday is a sabbath and every Sunday is a pascha; yet the Church marks Holy Saturday in this way. The reason must be some special meaning in 'Let all mortal flesh' that explains why the Church has had this tradition for some fifteen centuries.

[Matthew Panchisin]

Dear Andreas,

If my memory serves me correctly in the garden Adam hid himself and was silent when the Lord God said Adam where are you? Would it be accurate to say that it is now a Orthodox Christian song and can be used as a communion hymn throughout the years?

"And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou? And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself."

For Christian man there is a transformation or metamorphosis, we are not naked having been baptized into Christ with the most blessed of garments. There is relationship from the earth from which Adam was fashioned and the tomb of Christ on the blessed 7th day.

And you shall know that I am the Lord, when I open your graves, 0 my people. And I will put my spirit within you and you shall live. ...

I think the hymn moves beyond usage for Holy Saturday only, as it should for us.

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear Andreas and others,

I've been slow in coming to this thread, which is very interesting. I hope it is okay for me to engage with it this 'late in the game'.

The shape of the Liturgy at the Great Entrance

I think perhaps some clarity may come by noting the multi-layered dimensions of the Divine Liturgy at the hymn of the entry of the gifts. As the people sing, the deacon censes the sanctuary and the people whilst recisting the fiftieth psalm, which is fundamentally a prayer of honest acclamation of human reality. It is the admission of human sin, repentance, and the futility of engaging with the world in any terms except God's. At the same time, the priest stands before the holy table and recites the prayer of the hymn, which is also the prayer of the offering and entry. In part, this prayer reads as follows:
"No one who is bound by the desires and pleasures of the flesh is worthy to approach or draw near or minister to thee, O King of glory; for to serve thee is great and awesome even for the heavenly powers. [...]"
This takes place at the same time as the choir, on normal celebrations of the Divine Liturgy, sings the hymn of the cherubim:
"May we who in a mystery represent the cherubim, and sing the thrice-holy hymn to the life-creating Trinity, now lay aside all the cares of this life."
What is significant is that in this sacred moment, there is a three-fold offering of prayer to God, with its three dimensions all taking place together, at the same time, each with a slightly different emphasis and focus:


The deacon, representing the people who are about to make their offering, acknowledges the futility of worldly existence, the reality of sin, and implores that the spirit of wickedness and worldliness be replaced by the Spirit of the Father;
The priest, who stands at the empty table preparing the people's hearts through divine Wisdom, confesses the nature of God who cannot be approached by hearts chained down with worldly pleasures and desires, but whose hearts must be like those of the angels;
The people, singing the hymn of the angelic hosts, petition that, like the highest ranks of angels they mystically represent, they may lay aside every earthly care and be united to the will of the Father alone.

Thus in every aspect, in every dimension, the Liturgy -- by this three-fold offering of prayer -- implores that the human hearts, minds, souls and bodies present at the entrance may depart from worldly proclivities, and for this sacred entry may wholly be icons of the angels, whose existence is hymning the life-creating Trinity.

The Great Entrance on Holy Saturday

I think this helps explain how and why the shape of the Liturgy is altered at this point during the pre-Paschal celebration of Holy Saturday. On this day, the events of Great Lent and Great Week have led to the betrayal, crucifixion, and most recently burial of the Saviour. While every Saturday is a Sabbath, commemorating the Lord's rest, Great and Holy Saturday is the unique Sabbath of creation. The Lord himself sleeps the sleep of death. Now.

If the hymns of the great entrance are intended to draw up the earthly community (the gathered, assembled, worshipping faithful) into the life and actions of the heavenly hosts, then they must reflect the genuine life and actions of those angels. While it is true that the angelic orders exist to the glory, song and honour of the Trinity, on the Great Sabbath we learn that they -- like the Lord himself -- undertake a unique ministry. While he who is the source of life lies dead in the tomb, they who are voices of eternal song stand silent at the sight of the sleeping Lord.

From the hymns of the day:

"The company of angels was amazed, beholding thee, O Saviour, numbered among the dead, who hast destroyed the power of death and raised up Adam with thyself, setting all men free from hell." (Troparion at the evloghitaria of Matins - a resurrectional hymn for all Saturday evenings, paramountly connected to that of Holy Saturday)

"When the ranks of angels saw thee, O Saviour, laid out dead for our sake, they were filled with wonder and veiled their faces with their wings." (Troparion from the first stasis of the Praises - i.e. the Lamentations - of Holy Saturday matins)

"Thou art the joy of the angels, O Saviour, but now thou art become the cause of their grief, as they see thee in the flesh a lifeless corpse." (ibid.)

"The earth trembled with fear, O Saviour Christ, and the sun hid itself, seeing thee, the Light that knows no evening, sinking in thy body down into the tomb." (ibid., stasis 2 - showing the concord of all creation with the silence of the angels)

"The seraphim, O Saviour, beheld thee on high, united inseparably with the Father; yet they saw thee below, lying dead in the tomb, and they trembled with fear." (ibid.)

"Thou hast gone down beneath the earth, O Creator of light, and with thee the sun's light has also set; creation is seized with trembling and proclaims thee the Maker of all." (ibid.)

"When the chief captains of the heavenly hosts saw thee, O Saviour, stripped, bloodstained and condemned, how could they bear the boldness of thy crucifixion?" (ibid.)

"All the powers of heaven were filled with fear and wonder when they saw thee dead." (ibid., stasis 3)
I've provided here several selections from the hymnography of the day, because they are so beautiful; but there are many more (it is a day of rich hymns). What seems to me significant is how the hymns describe the response of the angelic hosts to the strange wonder of Christ's willing submission to death. The hosts which glorify God eternally, fall in reverent, silent fear before the sleeping Master. They, like all of creation, are siezed with trembling at the sight: the sun hides its rays, the angels veil their faces. Their amazement at the wonder yields a new hymn on this mysterious day of rest: the hymn of silence, of reverent awe.

And, just as at every celebration of the Divine Liturgy, the great entry of the gifts is that moment when earth joins chorus directly with the angelic hosts, the fiathful becoming 'icons of the cherubim' as the Greek of the normal Cherubic Hymn has it. As such, it is only fitting that on this unique and irrepeatable day, that 'joining-in' of the angelic hymn, becomes a joining in the angels' reverent stillness and holy quiet. So the usual hymn is not sung, and instead the people sing:
"Let all mortal flesh keep silence, and stand with fear and trembling; let it take no thought for any earthly thing. For the King of Kings and Lord of Lords draws near to be sacrificed and given as food to the faithful.

"Before him go the choirs of angels with all the principalities and powers, the many-eyed cherubim and the six-winged seraphim, which cover their faces as they sing this hymn: Alleluia, alleluia, alleluia."
On this day, this hymn does what the cherubic hymn otherwise does: accurately calls the earthly worshippers into the angelic chorus. It is distinct, different, on this day because it is a distinct, different day. As the Lord sleeps in the grave, awaiting the appointed time for his rising forth from the tomb, so the angels keep silence, honouring his divine condescension. And with them, all creation, including the faithful gathered at the Holy Table, join 'voice' with the angels, covering their faces and keeping reverent silence.

This seems duly, beautifully, brought ought when Pascha finally arrives on Sunday. At the canon of Pascha, the people now sing aloud:
"Meet it is that the heavens should rejoice, and that the whole earth should be glad -- that the whole earth, both visible and invisible, should joyfully keep the feast; for Christ, our everlasting Joy, has risen!" (troparion of ode 1)

"The angels in heaven, O Christ, now praise thy resurrection with hymns. Count us also who are on the earth worthy to glorify thee with a pure heart!" (hymn at Paschal midnight)

"Now let all the earth worship thee and sing unto thee; let them sing unto thy name, O Most High!" (Antiphon 1, Paschal Liturgy)
INXC, Dcn Matthew

[Andreas Moran]

I am very grateful to Fr Dcn Matthew for articulating what I has sensed and felt but had not had the time or energy to dwell upon nor the talent to express. It is clear that the Church in its wisdom has given us special hymns for this most special of days (which I have seen called the 'Forgotten Feast'). The unique Paschal significance of 'Let all mortal flesh' does indeed marry with the other hymns of Holy Saturday (as I had thought it must) and we see now why this hymn has been reserved exclusively for Holy Saturday and has been such a pearl in our Tradition for so many centuries. It is good that the meaning of this pearl has been exposed for the edification of the faithful. I have felt the force of this and the whole service of Holy Saturday since I attended this service at Sretensky monastery last Pascha. It has all been on my mind since then.

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

The Cherubic Hymn also reflects the cosmic reality that we are placed in at the time of its singing

Here we stand in prayer surrounded by angels and saints and the Mother of God all facing the cosmic altar of heavenly glory on which Christ offers Himself everlastingly to the Father within the Holy Spirit for all of creation and mankind.

As this understanding was taken up gradually by the Church over the centuries it influenced profoundly Her hymnography and also Her Church architecture & iconographic placement within the church.

This understanding is summed up exactly in the Cherubic Hymn we normally sing during the Liturgy as well as in all of the liturgical movements of the deacons, servers and singers/chanters. It all takes place within a certain reality.

As Fr Dn Matthew says however, 'Let All Mortal Flesh Keep Silence' transposes this overall reality into its unique setting of Holy Saturday.

If this hymn came originally from the Liturgy of St James (which would have been very well known to the church of the time) then its transferral to the Liturgy of St Basil on this one day of the year was a real stroke of interpretational inspiration.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Olga]

As this understanding was taken up gradually by the Church over the centuries it influenced profoundly Her hymnography and also Her Church architecture & iconographic placement within the church.

It is often the case that the icons painted in the lower border of the central cupola or dome of a church are the Communion of the Apostles (the icon "faces" those in the nave), and one of a series of angels wearing deacons' stoles, and holding censers, tapers, fans, etc. This icon, representing the heavenly Liturgy (or, at least, an aspect of it), faces towards the altar, and would therefore be clearly visible to the clergy whenever they face the congregation.

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

It is often the case that the icons painted in the lower border of the central cupola or dome of a church are the Communion of the Apostles (the icon "faces" those in the nave), and one of a series of angels wearing deacons' stoles, and holding censers, tapers, fans, etc. This icon, representing the heavenly Liturgy (or, at least, an aspect of it), faces towards the altar, and would therefore be clearly visible to the clergy whenever they face the congregation.

Yes, this is along the lines of what I am trying point out.

To study each component of the church is very important.

But something we have lost, except when we are being prayerfully simple within the service, is the overall cosmic vision of the Church; ie placing ourselves within that overall ecclesiological reality which ties all of its components together as it really is in any case.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear friends,

I must say that I've very much enjoyed the recent comments in this thread, and am particularly grateful for Father Raphael's contributions, as well as Olga's.

We often approach our 'study' of the Liturgy through an exploration of single texts alone - e.g. this passage here, that prayer there. But what has come across very much in the past few posts is the reality of the Liturgy as a cosmic event, in which the words form a critical, but yet only one, aspect. The words are layered, so often we must look at how certain words coincide with others; but also the shape of the physical movements; the architectural and iconographic framing in of the actions; the tone and tenor of the music; and much more.

If I could revert just for a moment to the specific matter of the 'Let all mortal flesh keep silence...' hymn replacing the Cherubic hymn on Holy Saturday, I would just note that my former comment, that Holy Saturday is a day unlike any other, should be read within the scope of the full liturgical cycle. As a unique day in the Paschal commemoration, it is truly unique -- which is why there is only one Great and Holy Saturday in the Church's liturgical year. However, the reality of the Lord's Sabbath rest is iconically made real also in the weekly cycle with its weekly Sabbath, and indeed in the daily cycle of divine services. As has been pointed out to me by someone through Private Messaging (whom I hope might share his thoughts also here), this hymn ('Let all mortal flesh keep silence...') is often used as part of the pre-communion prayers, which demonstrates the reality of this mystery even within the comic scope of the Divine Liturgy itself.

That said, the Paschal cycle of the Church is unique, and it seems to me that it is for this reason that the hymn replaces the Cherubic hymn only on this single occasion in the liturgical year.

With many thanks to all for the ongoing, friendly and fruitful discussion.

INXC, Dcn Matthew

[Ryan]

Does the Church Triumphant pray the same prayers as we do during the liturgy? Do we have an indication of how liturgy will be the same or different in paradise?

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Fr Dn Matthew wrote:



As has been pointed out to me by someone ... this hymn ('Let all mortal flesh keep silence...') is often used as part of the pre-communion prayers, which demonstrates the reality of this mystery even within the comic scope of the Divine Liturgy itself.


I had been wondering for a long time about how to invite Fr Dn Matthew to our out of the way parish. Now I know that he has been secretly visiting us and has witnessed the way I serve.

Talk about mystical participation!

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Herman Blaydoe]

Does the Church Triumphant pray the same prayers as we do during the liturgy? Do we have an indication of how liturgy will be the same or different in paradise?

Well, in that we basically use the prayers given us through Holy Scripture and the Fathers, and that our worship is based largely on the descriptions of Heavenly worship in the Apostle John's Revelation, I would have to assume the answer is yes the prayers and form of worship are at least similar. I don't know that they are EXACTLY the same, but I suspect that those who eventually get the opportunity to witness it will recognize it immediately. It will be different in that it will be never ending in the Heavenly Kingdom.

I am also under the impression that the Orthodox Church does not make much of a distinction between a "Church Militant" and "Church Triumphant" although I have heard and read Orthodox theologians who use the terms.

I look forward to correction or amplification if I assume incorrectly.

Herman the Pooh

[M.C. Steenberg]

As has been pointed out to me by someone through Private Messaging (whom I hope might share his thoughts also here), this hymn ('Let all mortal flesh keep silence...') is often used as part of the pre-communion prayers, which demonstrates the reality of this mystery even within the comic scope of the Divine Liturgy itself.


I had been wondering for a long time about how to invite Fr Dn Matthew to our out of the way parish. Now I know that he has been secretly visiting us and has witnessed the way I serve. ... Talk about mystical participation!

Heh! It has occasioned such a wonderful response, I think I shall refrain from correcting the typo in my post!

INXC, Dcn Matthew

[Andreas Moran]

I'm very grateful for the recent posts which have augmented and amplified my feelings in this matter. I am taken back repeatedly to Sretensky monastery and the totality of the experience I had there. The icons (which are new but completely faithful to the old Moscow School) in the monastery church are a complete visual complement to the services. The choir sing from a loft at the western end of the church over the entrance, so the exchanges between them and clergy resound back and forth across the church. Thanks to all for helping me to a deeper appreciation of my experience of Holy Saturday there.

[Ryan]

Why, by the way, do we represent the Cherubim? Why not worship with the heavenly choir simply as ourselves, that is, why not say, "in unison with the Cherubim"?

[Matthew Panchisin]

Dear Andreas,

You have mentioned:


"The unique Paschal significance of 'Let all mortal flesh' does indeed marry with the other hymns of Holy Saturday (as I had thought it must) and we see now why this hymn has been reserved exclusively for Holy Saturday and has been such a pearl in our Tradition for so many centuries."

"Let all mortal flesh keep silence, and stand with fear and trembling; let it take no thought for any earthly thing. For the King of Kings and Lord of Lords draws near to be sacrificed and given as food to the faithful.

I'm glad that Father Raphael has mentioned overall cosmic vision of the Church. This hymn also can be read or seen as pursuant to communion at other times in the liturgical life in Christ, as Father Deacon Matthew mentioned.

'The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” We could not take the above different text and stop it on the pages of the Bible for use only at one particular time. In Orthodox Christian life we believe the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father.

Liturgically we know that "every perfect gift comes from above the Father of lights." and "O Heavenly King, the Comforter, the Spirit of Truth who art everywhere present and fillest all things. Treasury of Blessings, and Giver of Life. Come and abide in us, and cleanse us from every impurity, and save our souls, O Good One."

A Russian Orthodox liturgical icon exists that has the text "Let all mortal flesh keep silence, and stand with fear and trembling..." Perhaps Olga or others have seen it. It seems to me that surely it would be pleasing to God for us to light a candle or say a prayer in front of such an icon when so prompted in every place of his dominion. Is it not written, "The kingdom of God does not come with signs to be observed or with visible display, Nor will people say, Look! Here (it is)! or, See, (it is) there! For behold, the kingdom of God is within you (in your hearts) and among you (surrounding you)." We can see this because the Eucharist is central to Orthodoxy and indeed there is a showering of the Holy Spirit in the Orthodox Church. While the text of the prayer may not read the same, the purpose of the liturgy remains steadfast, God reconciling man with God.

Having read of your fondness for Russian Orthodoxy often here now and in the past, I'm sure that you would not be comfortable stating to a simple Babushka in Russia (pearls of our tradition as well as you know) that the hymn has been reserved exclusively for Holy Saturday. It would not be possible for you to say, "Your are forbidden to sing it on Friday morning!" as a Babushka prayed in font of the liturgically written Russian Orthodox icon with the text "Let all mortal flesh keep silence, and stand with fear and trembling." This would be particularly true I think if she was praying her before communion prayers or perhaps in the not so distant communist past, before martyrdom movement, a very holy action. I think all the liturgical services of the Church, the services of Holy week, Vespers, Matins, the Divine Liturgy are to be expanded in our hearts. Orthodox Christians have been known to sing hymns to sustain them in difficult times, most of a liturgical root, grace expands and often at the most difficult of times.

Even the simple Babushka and others who might lack attentiveness, knowledge of the services in the Church have movements of their hearts through prayer that are good as well. What are we to say to the women who ask the intercessions of the Theotokas (who is above the Angles) in their prayers as their minds wonder to her from the "Let all mortal flesh" reserved hymn time on Holy Saturday or even the Cherubic hymn time. Surely, God is good even with human weakness when we pray. It is written, "In my Fathers house there are many mansions." Humility is often cited as an important and goes hand in hand with the acknowledgement of our human weaknesses.

It is true that all of Holy week is different, the services leading up to Pascha and so forth, however the reason it seems to me that it is different is because those events connected with all of Gods' love are the response of the Most High to those that have sung throughout the past the present and the future "save us who sing to thee Alleluia." in many different places and times.

Here is more that you may find of interest.

"A Russian icon of the XVI-XVII Century shows at the same time the visible and invisible celebration of the Great Entrance and of the Eucharist. The building of a church in the background indicates that in this case the Divine Liturgy is celebrated on Earth and not in Heaven, although Angels and Saints take part in it Rows of Prophets, Patriarchs, Apostles, Holy Women, Hermits Martyrs, Just; blessed Children with St. John the Baptist in the center standing on an elevation, form a living screen behind which moves the procession of the Great Entrance carrying the Gifts from the Prothesis to the Altar. The deacon, assisted by two Angels, carries over his head the Paten with Emmanuel the Lamb of Sacrifice. The deacon is preceeded by the sacristain and by two Angels is with liturgical fans (ripidy). The officiating priest with the chalice follows the deacon while two other priests carry the Crossand the Holy Napkin with the image of Christ. High up, in the pace of the dome, enthroned in full glory on wings of Cherubim, Christ Emmanuel, the Lamb of Sacrifice, enters the Sanctuary. He is carried by nebulous spheres which represent the Celestial Hierarchy. Two Angels in vestments of deacons hold Christ Emmanuel, the Lamb of Sacrifice, over the Paten, while the Holy Ghost descends in a ray of light proceeding from the Father. Angels of the rank of Thrones in vestments of bishops, wearing the mitras on their heads, stand by the Sacrifice as do the composers of the Eastern Liturgy: St. John Chrysostom, St. Basil the Great and St. Gregory the Theologian. The hymn which is illustrated in this icon is chanted at Lent during the Great Entrance in the Liturgy ot St. Basil the Great. It reads: "Let all mortal flesh hold in peace and stand with fear and trembling and meditate nothing earthly for the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords cometh to be slain."



In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin

[Matthew Panchisin]

Dear Ryan,

"Why, by the way, do we represent the Cherubim? Why not worship with the heavenly choir simply as ourselves, that is, why not say, "in unison with the Cherubim"?"

Yours is a good question, I think is ultimately relates to the incarnation, the word became flesh and dwelt among us. In the Divine Liturgy God so loves the world that he gives his only begotten Son.

If our biological Fathers and Mothers give us the best of gifts that mean so very much to them, we treasure them and they have a very special place in our hearts, often more so as we grow older. This is even more so when they are related to our Orthodox faith. So if a prayer book is received as a gift at one time, and an icon at another, they mean much to us as well. As you know, this is because of the love that is expressed therein the motion.

In your comments I noticed a change, that the mystical movement is being moved to a place of simply ourselves. It is a gift to mystically represent the Cherubim in the Divine Liturgy and sing the Thrice Holy hymn. While in the Liturgy "Wisdom (Sophia). Arise. Let us hear the holy Gospel. Peace be with all., is heard, an action that is conveyed during the Gospel reading, wisdom, peace and hearing the Holy Gospel does not cease or stop there. We depart in peace and so forth. We are called to worship not in "unison with the Cherubim" for a reason. So that our hearts and minds might be lifted up much higher than earth that we stand on often.

If I rely on myself I often find myself particularly unreliable (I could error much) in relation to things that are very high. So we have the traditions of the Church in place, her God bearing fathers, the Saints, our Bishops, Priests, Deacons and monks and thanks be to God. Drawing from those places, we do these things and to quote His Grace Bishop Peter (ROCOR) "because the Church is telling you to". In other words, the Church is our sovereign not our minds and thoughts that may wonder. Even if they do, though God is with us. During another time when God is with us, during the celebration of the feast of the Nativity of Christ we sing additionally, "understand all ye nations, and submit yourselves, for God is with us."

I think the answer is because the Orthodox Church is a place of great mercy and reconciliation and participation in the worship of the life creating Holy Trinity mystically. If you read the text regarding the mysteria (sacrament) of Baptism you will see it is also referenced as Holy illumination. As you know, in baptism in the name of the Holy Trinity, the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit, we are newly illuminated in Christ. I think it is helpful to keep in mind (which can be difficult for me) the fuller context of the Liturgy.

In the Divine Liturgy, no mortal flesh is really worthy of such holy movements. Yet God provides not one way among many, but most assuredly our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ the only begotten Son of God, the way, the truth and the life.

At the same time that the Cherubic Hymn is being chanted or sung the Priest prays:

"No one bound by worldly desires and pleasures is worthy to approach, draw near or minister to You, the King of glory. To serve You is great and awesome even for the heavenly powers. But because of Your ineffable and immeasurable love for us, You became man without alteration or change. You have served as our High Priest, and as Lord of all, and have entrusted to us the celebration of this liturgical sacrifice without the shedding of blood. For You alone, Lord our God, rule over all things in heaven and on earth. You are seated on the throne of the Cherubim, the Lord of the Seraphim and the King of Israel. You alone are holy and dwell among Your saints. You alone are good and ready to hear. Therefore, I implore You, look upon me, Your sinful and unworthy servant, and cleanse my soul and heart from evil consciousness. Enable me by the power of Your Holy Spirit so that, vested with the grace of priesthood, I may stand before Your holy Table and celebrate the mystery of Your holy and pure Body and Your precious Blood. To You I come with bowed head and pray: do not turn Your face away from me or reject me from among Your children, but make me, Your sinful and unworthy servant, worthy to offer to You these gifts. For You, Christ our God, are the Offerer and the Offered, the One who receives and is distributed, and to You we give glory, together with Your eternal Father and Your holy, good and life giving Spirit, now and forever and to the ages of ages. Amen."


Father Deacon Matthew sums things up well when he says, "The people, singing the hymn of the angelic hosts, petition that, like the highest ranks of angels they mystically represent, they may lay aside every earthly care and be united to the will of the Father alone."

Additionally, you may find the writings from the Minea of St. Dimitry of Rostov helpful regarding ranks of angels, the Seraphim, Cherubim. We are to see in them the importance and wisdom of loving God and one another.

The nine orders of the angels are divided into three hierarchies, each of which is divided into three orders: the highest, the intermediate, the lower.

The first hierarch, the highest and closest to the Most Holy Trinity, consists of the SERAPHIM, CHERUBIM, and THRONES.

The God-loving six-winged Seraphim stand closer than all before their Creator and Maker, as the prophet Isaiah saw, saying: "And the seraphim stood around Him, each having six wings" (Isaiah 6:2). They are fire-like since they stand before That One of Whom it is written: "For our God is a consuming fire." (Heb. 12:29); "His throne was a flame of fire" (Dan 7:9); "the appearance of the Lord was like a blazing fire" (Ex. 24:17). Standing before such glory, the seraphim are fire-like, as it said: "Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire" (Ps. 103:4). They are aflame with love for God and kindle others to such love, as I shown by their very name, for "seraphim" in the Hebrew language means: "flaming".

After the seraphim, before the All-knowing God, Who resides in inaccessible light, stand the many-eyed Cherubim in ineffable radiance. More than the other lower orders of angels, they are always radiant with the light of the knowledge of God, with the knowledge of the mysteries of God and the depths of His Wisdom; being themselves enlightened, they enlighten others. Their name "cherubim" in translation from the Hebrew language, means: "great understanding" or "effusion of wisdom", because through the cherubim wisdom is sent down to others and enlightenment of the spiritual eyes is given for the seeing of God and knowledge of God.

[Aristibule]

Just to point out - us Western Orthodox (particularly in the Russian Orthodox Church) sing "Let All Mortal Flesh Keep Silence" every Sunday as our traditional Cherubic Hymn. Similar to our use of the Te Deum (used less often in the Byzantine rite?)

[Olga]

Perhaps the closest Orthodox equivalent to the western Te Deum are the Little Doxology and the Great Doxology. The latter is always sung at the end of Matins of Sundays and feasts, if I'm not mistaken, so it is heard quite frequently.

[Anthony Stokes]

Perhaps the closest Orthodox equivalent to the western Te Deum are the Little Doxology and the Great Doxology. The latter is always sung at the end of Matins of Sundays and feasts, if I'm not mistaken, so it is heard quite frequently.


There is a service for the Sunday of Orthodoxy, I'm not sure if it is the exact one that Bishops serve after the Liturgy, but there is a service that can be done with a procession that includes the Te Deum (listed as the Hymn of St. Ambrose). We did it this year in our parish, but I'm not sure where the text came from. There are some a few places to find Orthodox settings of the hymn.

Sbdn. Anthony

[Ryan]

Thanks Matthew for a great explanation.

Another thing I wonder about- we sing the trisagion together with the heavenly choir, but why do the angels and saints need to say "have mercy on us?" Is it possible for angels who have remained good to sin? Would saints continue to repent in heaven?

[Andreas Moran]

Dear Andreas,

You have mentioned:



"Let all mortal flesh keep silence, and stand with fear and trembling; let it take no thought for any earthly thing. For the King of Kings and Lord of Lords draws near to be sacrificed and given as food to the faithful.

I'm glad that Father Raphael has mentioned overall cosmic vision of the Church. This hymn also can be read or seen as pursuant to communion at other times in the liturgical life in Christ, as Father Deacon Matthew mentioned.

'The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” We could not take the above different text and stop it on the pages of the Bible for use only at one particular time. In Orthodox Christian life we believe the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father.

Liturgically we know that "every perfect gift comes from above the Father of lights." and "O Heavenly King, the Comforter, the Spirit of Truth who art everywhere present and fillest all things. Treasury of Blessings, and Giver of Life. Come and abide in us, and cleanse us from every impurity, and save our souls, O Good One."

A Russian Orthodox liturgical icon exists that has the text "Let all mortal flesh keep silence, and stand with fear and trembling..." Perhaps Olga or others have seen it. It seems to me that surely it would be pleasing to God for us to light a candle or say a prayer in front of such an icon when so prompted in every place of his dominion. Is it not written, "The kingdom of God does not come with signs to be observed or with visible display, Nor will people say, Look! Here (it is)! or, See, (it is) there! For behold, the kingdom of God is within you (in your hearts) and among you (surrounding you)." We can see this because the Eucharist is central to Orthodoxy and indeed there is a showering of the Holy Spirit in the Orthodox Church. While the text of the prayer may not read the same, the purpose of the liturgy remains steadfast, God reconciling man with God.

Having read of your fondness for Russian Orthodoxy often here now and in the past, I'm sure that you would not be comfortable stating to a simple Babushka in Russia (pearls of our tradition as well as you know) that the hymn has been reserved exclusively for Holy Saturday. It would not be possible for you to say, "Your are forbidden to sing it on Friday morning!" as a Babushka prayed in font of the liturgically written Russian Orthodox icon with the text "Let all mortal flesh keep silence, and stand with fear and trembling." This would be particularly true I think if she was praying her before communion prayers or perhaps in the not so distant communist past, before martyrdom movement, a very holy action. I think all the liturgical services of the Church, the services of Holy week, Vespers, Matins, the Divine Liturgy are to be expanded in our hearts. Orthodox Christians have been known to sing hymns to sustain them in difficult times, most of a liturgical root, grace expands and often at the most difficult of times.

Even the simple Babushka and others who might lack attentiveness, knowledge of the services in the Church have movements of their hearts through prayer that are good as well. What are we to say to the women who ask the intercessions of the Theotokas (who is above the Angles) in their prayers as their minds wonder to her from the "Let all mortal flesh" reserved hymn time on Holy Saturday or even the Cherubic hymn time. Surely, God is good even with human weakness when we pray. It is written, "In my Fathers house there are many mansions." Humility is often cited as an important and goes hand in hand with the acknowledgement of our human weaknesses.

It is true that all of Holy week is different, the services leading up to Pascha and so forth, however the reason it seems to me that it is different is because those events connected with all of Gods' love are the response of the Most High to those that have sung throughout the past the present and the future "save us who sing to thee Alleluia." in many different places and times.

Here is more that you may find of interest.

"A Russian icon of the XVI-XVII Century shows at the same time the visible and invisible celebration of the Great Entrance and of the Eucharist. The building of a church in the background indicates that in this case the Divine Liturgy is celebrated on Earth and not in Heaven, although Angels and Saints take part in it Rows of Prophets, Patriarchs, Apostles, Holy Women, Hermits Martyrs, Just; blessed Children with St. John the Baptist in the center standing on an elevation, form a living screen behind which moves the procession of the Great Entrance carrying the Gifts from the Prothesis to the Altar. The deacon, assisted by two Angels, carries over his head the Paten with Emmanuel the Lamb of Sacrifice. The deacon is preceeded by the sacristain and by two Angels is with liturgical fans (ripidy). The officiating priest with the chalice follows the deacon while two other priests carry the Crossand the Holy Napkin with the image of Christ. High up, in the pace of the dome, enthroned in full glory on wings of Cherubim, Christ Emmanuel, the Lamb of Sacrifice, enters the Sanctuary. He is carried by nebulous spheres which represent the Celestial Hierarchy. Two Angels in vestments of deacons hold Christ Emmanuel, the Lamb of Sacrifice, over the Paten, while the Holy Ghost descends in a ray of light proceeding from the Father. Angels of the rank of Thrones in vestments of bishops, wearing the mitras on their heads, stand by the Sacrifice as do the composers of the Eastern Liturgy: St. John Chrysostom, St. Basil the Great and St. Gregory the Theologian. The hymn which is illustrated in this icon is chanted at Lent during the Great Entrance in the Liturgy ot St. Basil the Great. It reads: "Let all mortal flesh hold in peace and stand with fear and trembling and meditate nothing earthly for the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords cometh to be slain."



In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin

I have been away for some time so I can only now rejoin this thread. We have considered the topic in this thread in the context of the Church's liturgical tradition but people may use any hymn in their private devotions. The Church provides a framwork, a structure for us but we are indeed free to build our own devotions within that structure.
Fr Raphael's and Fr Dcn Matthew's mention of the cosmic nature of the Church's liturgical practice and tradition and of the unique yet integrated nature of Holy Saturday does indeed make us aware that there are such depths and heights in the Church's accumulated liturgical tradition that we can scarcely plumb or scale. No wonder it is called the Divine Liturgy.
Since I do not know whether any Russian babushka uses 'Let all mortal flesh' I make no comment about that point.

I wonder if Olga can provide an illustration of the icon referred to? I can't recall seeing it.

[Andreas Moran]

I noticed that the Exarchate group (Russian tradition within EP) in England has produced a version of the Divine Liturgy which translates the Cherubic Hymn as 'We who in a nystery are icons of the cherubim'. Something grates in my mind about the words in bold; clearly this does not follow the Greek grammar, but to say we are icons of the cherubim feels not right. Any thoughts?

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

I noticed that the Exarchate group (Russian tradition within EP) in England has produced a version of the Divine Liturgy which translates the Cherubic Hymn as 'We who in a nystery are icons of the cherubim'. Something grates in my mind about the words in bold; clearly this does not follow the Greek grammar, but to say we are icons of the cherubim feels not right. Any thoughts?

Theologically an icon refers image to the prototype. So in this case it seems better to use the word 'represent' rather than 'icon'.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Andreas Moran]

Thank you, Father, that's what I thought.

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear Andreas, you wrote:


I noticed that the Exarchate group (Russian tradition within EP) in England has produced a version of the Divine Liturgy which translates the Cherubic Hymn as 'We who in a nystery are icons of the cherubim'. Something grates in my mind about the words in bold; clearly this does not follow the Greek grammar, but to say we are icons of the cherubim feels not right. Any thoughts?

I had noticed this as well. I'd thought of making a note of it earlier, but wanted to give it time to 'sink in' - since any notable changes to familiar liturgical translations always grate a bit harshly at first. But having considered this rendition for some time now, my thoughts are these:

Fundamentally, this is a mistranslation. The Greek phrase is oi ta xeroubeim mustikos eikonizontes..., and the translators have obviously opted for what seems, at a surface level, to be a bone-literal translation of eikonizontes as 'to be icons'. But the participle (like the verb) doesn't actually mean 'to be an icon', but rather, in a harsh-literalness, 'to icon-ize'. That is, the verb doesn't indicate that something or someone is an icon, but that something or someone actively engages in the imaging of another reality. So in an odd way, by trying to be extremely literal to the term eikonizontes in a flat way - simply rendering it 'to be an icon', because the root eikon forms part of the word - the translators have got the sense quite wrong. The verb doesn't mean this; and in fact, it is something of a denegration of what it is actually suggesting. The verb indicates the active process (not a state, not a condition) of icon-izing, of making present and immediate, that in which something participates (here, the Cherubim).

A far better translation is the more traditional: to represent. This is to be taken in its full, theological sense: not simply to be an image that stands in the place / stead of another (the colloquial usage of 'represent'), but of re-presenting, making newly, immediately present, the realities described.

So my own thought is that this translation, 'We who in a mystery are icons of the cherubim...', is actually not just stylistically different, but in fact wrong, in terms of representing in English the actual theology of the terms used in the original languages.

INXC, Dcn Matthew

[Olga]

The word eikonizontes, derived from eikona, used in the Cherubic Hymn has always meant represent or illustrate, as in to act as an example. The Divine Liturgy is an imitation (not in a negative sense), of heavenly worship, as far as this has been revealed to us, and as far as our minds can comprehend. Therefore, we worship God in similar fashion to the Cherubim. We stand before the presence of God, we sing the Thrice-holy Hymn to glorify the Trinity, etc.

The Slavonic equivalent in the hymn is obrazuyushche, derived from the word obraz. Both eikona and obraz can mean image or illustration in a secular sense, and both words also have the more specific religious/liturgical meaning of icon. However, I share Andreas' discomfort over the phrase icons of the Cherubim, as this can easily be construed as the faithful being equal to these angelic beings, which is theologically suspect, to say the least.

[Andreas Moran]

Thanks to Fr Dcn Matthew and Olga and all for clarifying this for me. When I said the words in question grated, I felt sure they were not merely stylistically poor but wrong in meaning. It just shows how careful and prayerful those have to be who assume responsibility for liturgical texts.