ROCOR, OCA, UOC and MP Rubrics

[Carlos Antonio Palad]

Dear all:

What are the major differences between rubrical / liturgical practices of ROCOR, OCA, the MP ("Golden Circle"), and the Ukrainian Orthodox Church-Moscow Patriarchate? I've read in various places that these different jurisdictions -- which share the same tradition and heritage -- all embody somewhat different rubrics and ways of celebrating the liturgy.

All I know is that MP-Golden Circle tradition uses red vestments for Pascha, while ROCOR and OCA use white (although I've also seen pics of some OCA hierarchs using red for Pascha). I've also seen references to the Ukrainians and Carpatho-Russians using some Greek practices (e.g. Vespers in the evening and Matins in the morning rather than All-Night Vigils, etc.).

[Herman Blaydoe]

I've also seen references to the Ukrainians and Carpatho-Russians using some Greek practices (e.g. Vespers in the evening and Matins in the morning rather than All-Night Vigils, etc.).

In that the American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese (ACROD) is under the Ecumenical Patriarch whose Exarch is the head of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, they (we) tend to follow more Greek-style customs than Russian. Our clergy wear Greek-style vestments (His Eminence is rather insistant on that) and our Liturgical practice tends more towards the Greek rather than the Russian, although our unique musical tradition is entirely our own.

Herman the Nawshe (by adoption) Pooh

[Anthony Stokes]

Dear all:
What are the major differences between rubrical / liturgical practices of ROCOR, OCA, the MP ("Golden Circle"), and the Ukrainian Orthodox Church-Moscow Patriarchate? I've read in various places that these different jurisdictions -- which share the same tradition and heritage -- all embody somewhat different rubrics and ways of celebrating the liturgy.

I think you'll find, at least in America, that ROCOR and the OCA are pretty similar in their rubrics, over all. But, there are some differences in practice. Not as many OCA churches do Vigil either, and there are some that split the services up, while I think that most ROCOR parishes do Vigil on Saturdays, but I'm not completely sure.

I actually use the ROCOR rubrics book to put together services, because it is the closest thing to an English typicon. The liturgical calendars that are produced each year always have mistakes, so I don't use them. By just using the rubrics book, I also don't run into the new/old calendar problems, because the rubrics are pretty much the same.

Subdeacon Anthony

[Anthony Stokes]

Dear all:
All I know is that MP-Golden Circle tradition uses red vestments for Pascha, while ROCOR and OCA use white (although I've also seen pics of some OCA hierarchs using red for Pascha).


Also, along the colors line, it's important to remember, that not everyone has all of the colors available because of funding. Most priests only own gold, purple, and white to start out with, and often only the priest has the different colors, the servers usually don't. So, while some may use green for pentecost, the church down the street in the same jurisdiction may not have any green vestments, so they would use gold.

Subdeacon Anthony

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear friends,

Looking back to this thread, I do note that one significant (if not, in practical terms, immense) difference between common liturgical custom in the MP and the ROCOR, is the usage of 'O God, save the pious...' at the Divine Liturgy.

With some exceptions, this is not said (nor, for that matter, included in the service books) amongst the MP; however, in ROCOR parishes, it is common for this to be sung - antiphonally between deacon and choir - before the 'and unto ages of ages' before the trisagion.

Those more adept in the history of liturgical development may be able to comment on the accuracy of the explanation I have twice heard, given by MP clergy as to why this is not present in MP practice; namely, that it was a specifically regal insertion for the reigning Orthodox monarch, which is not a standard part of the Liturgy proper, and need not be included without such a reigning monarch.

INXC, Deacon Matthew

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Dear friends,

Looking back to this thread, I do note that one significant (if not, in practical terms, immense) difference between common liturgical custom in the MP and the ROCOR, is the usage of 'O God, save the pious...' at the Divine Liturgy.

With some exceptions, this is not said (nor, for that matter, included in the service books) amongst the MP; however, in ROCOR parishes, it is common for this to be sung - antiphonally between deacon and choir - before the 'and unto ages of ages' before the trisagion.

Those more adept in the history of liturgical development may be able to comment on the accuracy of the explanation I have twice heard, given by MP clergy as to why this is not present in MP practice; namely, that it was a specifically regal insertion for the reigning Orthodox monarch, which is not a standard part of the Liturgy proper, and need not be included without such a reigning monarch.

INXC, Deacon Matthew

Interesting- I know it was used both at St Tikhon's monastery/seminary & by the chief protodeacon of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Canada. The influence on both of these I think is from the Russian Church.

However in my experience there is also a bit of lag compared to the church in Russia in how these practices are followed. A good example of this is the use of the Lukan 'jump' for the Gospel readings after the feast of the Exaltation of the Cross. This practice is described in the typikon but was only adopted by the Russian church (from what I hear) in the 1970s. Gradually now from this point onwards the practice has been adopted or looked into by all those churches which basically follow Russian practice.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Anthony Stokes]

Interesting- I know it was used both at St Tikhon's monastery/seminary & by the chief protodeacon of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Canada. The influence on both of these I think is from the Russian Church.
In Christ- Fr Raphael

It's done in the OCA regularly when a deacon is serving as well. My priest actually got permission from our bishop to do it as well in a different order, with the amen coming before "O Lord, save the pious."

Sbdn. Anthony

[Carlos Antonio Palad]

It's done in the OCA regularly when a deacon is serving as well. My priest actually got permission from our bishop to do it as well in a different order, with the amen coming before "O Lord, save the pious."

Sbdn. Anthony

What is the significance of the change?

[Carlos Antonio Palad]

Interesting- I know it was used both at St Tikhon's monastery/seminary & by the chief protodeacon of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Canada. The influence on both of these I think is from the Russian Church.

However in my experience there is also a bit of lag compared to the church in Russia in how these practices are followed. A good example of this is the use of the Lukan 'jump' for the Gospel readings after the feast of the Exaltation of the Cross. This practice is described in the typikon but was only adopted by the Russian church (from what I hear) in the 1970s. Gradually now from this point onwards the practice has been adopted or looked into by all those churches which basically follow Russian practice.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

As an outsider, it is my fervent hope that the OCA, ROCOR, UOC-MP, etc. preserve the older elements of Russian usage that they have retained (white vestments during Paschal Liturgy, etc.)

[Carlos Antonio Palad]

Do ROCOR and OCA still practice the changing into different colors of vestments during the Paschal celebrations?

[Father David Moser]

Do ROCOR and OCA still practice the changing into different colors of vestments during the Paschal celebrations?

Not universally, but I do as does my spiritual father.

Fr David Moser

[Anthony Stokes]

Do ROCOR and OCA still practice the changing into different colors of vestments during the Paschal celebrations?

I have not personally witnessed it in the OCA, but I think that is probably due to the fact that many parishes/clergy do not have red vestments. Our cathedral in Dallas uses red for Pascha, but I'm not sure of they start that the services in red or white because I have never been there for Pascha, I've just seen pictures.

The switch from purple to white does happen at the Holy Saturday Vesperal Liturgy though. That is pretty universal.

Sbdn. Anthony

[Father David Moser]

I guess we need clarification about the question. If you are asking about changing from dark (purple/maroon/black) to bright (white/red) on Sat morning during the liturgy - everyone does that as far as I know. I took the question to be about the practice of changing into as many colors as possible during the Paschal canon (a different color phelon for each ode). That, as I have said, is done in ROCOR but not consistently throughout all parishes.

Fr David Moser

[Anthony Stokes]

I guess we need clarification about the question. If you are asking about changing from dark (purple/maroon/black) to bright (white/red) on Sat morning during the liturgy - everyone does that as far as I know. I took the question to be about the practice of changing into as many colors as possible during the Paschal canon (a different color phelon for each ode). That, as I have said, is done in ROCOR but not consistently throughout all parishes.

Fr David Moser


Yes, I guess clarification would be good. I thought Carlos was referring to starting the Paschal nocturnes in White and switching to Red for the Liturgy.

I have never heard of the practice of changing colors for each ode of the canon. What are the 8 colors used? I can only think of 7: white, gold, red, blue, green, purple, and I guess, maybe black.

Thanks,
Sbdn. Anthony

[M.C. Steenberg]

The 'priest and his amazing technicolour phelon' is also a practice known in Russia - though not often practiced (largely on practical reasons, given that many won't have all the sets). Normally the standard colour is red; or in lieu of that, white.

INXC, Dcn Matthew

[Father David Moser]

I have never heard of the practice of changing colors for each ode of the canon. What are the 8 colors used? I can only think of 7: white, gold, red, blue, green, purple, and I guess, maybe black.

Never black or any of the lenten colors on Pascha! - only the bright colors. There is no set pattern that I know - you just use what you've got. I happen to have 2 whites, light gold, 2 golds, red, blue, green so I just mix them and use them all in rotation. So long as I begin and end on white, I'm good.

Fr David Moser

[Carlos Antonio Palad]

I have never heard of the practice of changing colors for each ode of the canon. What are the 8 colors used? I can only think of 7: white, gold, red, blue, green, purple, and I guess, maybe black.

Thanks,
Sbdn. Anthony

Yes, Subdeacon Anthony, I was indeed asking about this practice.

As for the use of red in the Paschal Divine Liturgy, I've been told that it is not done in ROCOR, but is done in the Moscow Patriarchate (although I don't know about the Ukrainian Orthodox Church -Moscow Patriarchate) and in some OCA churches