Isolation and Orthodoxy

[Rick H.]

"Two Realities that Are Not Seperate from Each Other"





. . . I suspect many Orthodox Christians live out their lives in degrees of isolation.




Since the day Andreas wrote the above, about our individual ascetic lives/approaches and primarily in the context of the local visible church, I haven't been able to get this statement off of my mind. It is my understanding that the above is written from one who participates heavily in the life of the Church.

I am trying to keep this first post short and simple intentionally, but this really is a very broad subject. I wonder if anyone can relate to what is said?

There is a heavy overlap here with some of the existing threads/posts on Monachos.net including:

1.) Spiritual direction (especially those that speak of the dynamics of relation and obedience).

2.) Local parish life. (an ecclesia of God?)

In fact, any thread/post which speaks of relation/relationship in Orthodoxy also speaks directly to this subject. Any thread/post which speaks of community speaks to this subject.

So in short, what do we see from "our authors" about isolation ('set apart from others') . . . and possibly as well, what do we see about relation ('an aspect or quality that connects two or more things or parts as being or belonging or working together or as being of the same kind ').

In some ways to consider this reminds me of a 'deep calling to deep.' And, I'm not sure this is a conversation for those who have not experienced this personally in their lives to some degree.

[Fabio Lins]

I was thinking about it today.

Non-Church people, and here I mean Church in its strong proper sense of being the Body of Christ and of real effort to be part of it, live under the paradigms of either the individual or the collective. They are either individuals whose links to others are merely the passional introjections of the others' presence or they are "mass-people", just a member of an indistinct group be it a nationality, a party, a soccer team, a musical style, a parish, a religion or a fashion trend.

Thus, they either live in isolation or in depersonalization. The individualistic ones fear the depersonalization of the mass-people and the mass-people despise the "selfishness" and isolationism of the individualistic ones.

Being part of the Body of Christ, is neither individualism nor colectivism but communion. Just like the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are different Persons and yet are one, in the church we are all single persons and yet we are one. Truly the image of God. For all the standars of the mass-people, who are the majority, we cannot but look like isolationist individualists, for even though surrendering ourselves to Christ, He Himself preserves our identities and an identity that is even stronger than the identity of the individualistic for their concept of self is a construct of their minds whilst the identity God preserves in us is our true one, the one devised by Himself. This is the meaning of being "set apart".

Still, the relation of the true church member to the others is not like the individulistic who only sees the images that exist in his own heart and mind. We all share the same energy of God and we look outside of us. We do not loose ourselves in the mass, being always set apart, but we are in a connection of love. To the individualist, this cannot but look like some sort of collectivism, but our identities are preserved by God Himself, we are all different persons.

So that is, I think, the point: the true Christian is necessarily an ascetic to some degree, but Christian asceticism is not isolation nor socialization: it is communion, an entirely different concept.

[Jonathan Michael]

Fabio's post reminded me of the Icon of the Saints of the British Isles:

http://bp2.blogger.com/_4tTPZhzBgQc/Rswl7fSzEaI/AAAAAAAAAE8/RhhMrCriftY/s400/saints+_of+_britain_and_ireland.jpg


What always struck me about the Icon is that it's not a typical "group picture". Up around Scotland you've got a few Saints standing on little islets all of their own, and down by Wales you've got St. Ia floating on her leaf, quite isolated. Then you've got the other saints all huddled together like little families all of their own, based on their locale. And of course, many of the saints grouped together would never have met on earth, having lived hundreds of years apart.

But nevertheless, all of these Holy Saints, whether wearing red cloaks of martyrdom or green cloaks of asceticism, all belong to one communion, in Christ. The Cross is at the centre of the Icon, and Christ is above all as the head. So yes, I hear what Fabio says about the Church being a communion, regardless of individual circumstances.

From a personal perspective: most of my friends and associates, by a large margin, are non-Orthodox, and inevitably there are feelings of "difference" from them but also of seperation (but, please, don't think that I am an anti-social melancholic borderline misanthrope - I love my friends dearly). With the relatively few Orthodox believers I know there are also feelings of difference, but less a feeling of seperation.

[Owen Jones]

For most people, Orthodoxy is primarily an ethnic/national experience, or at the very least, that aspect of it is inextricable. The intensity of the religious factor is primarily cultural. Religion being something that binds us together. This is perhaps even more crucial in America, where there are so few Orthodox. I live in a metropolitan area of approx. 5 million plus, and there are probably 2,000 Orthodox (if we wish to be a bit generous). Among that number about 2/3d are Greek. I would make a wild guess that 10% are converts. But in the Greek Cathedral, the number of converts is probably more like 1%. So if you are a convert I can attest to the fact that there is an experience of isolation. Although I use the term with some trepidation because it implies a psychological dysfunction.

The more important issue it seems to me is the intensity factor in one's spiritual life. And part of that comes from the experience of spiritual communion with others, which usually includes dialogue, as a noted saint has said in another post here recently. It is really, really difficult to have any kind of spiritual dialogue as part of one's Orthodox experience here. Not whining!!! Just trying to be empirical about it. So one has to make an extra effort to have a dialogue with your own inner parts. So maybe the "isolation" has its benefits.