New complete Octoechos

[Kris]

I noticed on this (http://www.orthodoxpress.org/prayer_b.htm) site that Rdr. Isaac Lambertsen has recently published a new, four volume set of the Octoechos in English. I wanted to ask if there were any significant differences between Slavonic and Greek usage, and how accurately Lambertsen's translations from Slavonic could be said to reflect the original Greek text.

Thanks!

[Michael Astley]

I noticed on this (http://www.orthodoxpress.org/prayer_b.htm) site that Rdr. Isaac Lambertsen has recently published a new, four volume set of the Octoechos in English. I wanted to ask if there were any significant differences between Slavonic and Greek usage, and how accurately Lambertsen's translations from Slavonic could be said to reflect the original Greek text.

Thanks!

Dear Reader Kris,

I have this four-volume set but hadn't realised that it was new. I'm afraid that I don't have Greek or Slavonic so cannot give a comparison but the Slavonic text may be found here (http://www.st-sergius.org/services/services31.html), in case anybody else is able to compare. An English translation of the Greek equivalent is here (http://www.anastasis.org.uk/oktoich.htm).

I hope this helps.

Michael

[Edward Henderson]

Reader Isaac's translation of the Octoechoes is from Church Slavonic. Holy Transfiguration Monastery in Boston is working on a translation of the Octoechoes (aka Paraklitiki), but from Greek text.

From my studies into the textual differences, there really is not much difference for Saturday night Vespers and Matins. You will find differences during the rest of the week, particularly in the daily canons read at Matins and Small Compline.

Reader Isaac translated from the Slavonic because he knows it and does not know Greek. However, this is merit to translating from Slavonic. Last year, I wrote a paper and used texts from the Octoechoes translated by Reader Isaac to back up my argument. When I checked the Slavonic there were not problems, but when I checked the Greek I noticed differences. During the summer, I did an internship at the Nativity Church in Erie, PA, which is Old Rite in ROCOR. There I was able to check the current Slavonic texts with the Pre-Nikonian (pre-17th century) version and there were no textual differences.

What does this mean? Well, we know that the Slavs translated Greek texts into Slavonic. Perhaps the Slavonic version reflects an older Greek text. I would think it does. Now, when the Nikonian reforms took place in the last 17th century, they revised the books according to the then current Greek books. Thus, if the Pre- and Post-Nikonian Octoechoes match, it may point to the fact that even in the late 17th century, the Greek Octoechoes matched with the Slavonic as well. Sometime afterwards, alterations occurred in the Greek books. Why this happened, I do not have an answer. It is not a problem so long as it expresses Orthodox theology, which both versions do. However, it may indicate that sometimes when there are differences between the Greek and Slavonic texts, Slavonic may often reflect an older version or usage, which means, it is not always incorrect to translate from the Slavonic.

This idea is not foreign to the Church, as we prefer to use the Septuagint Greek Old Testament rather than the Masoretic Hebrew version. The Greek Septuagint is a translation from an older Hebrew text. Nevertheless, we cannot totally dismiss the Hebrew because the Masoretic and Septuagint OTs match each other about 85% of the time.

What this ultimately means is that often, when making an English text of any book used by the Church, we often cannot just look to one language, nor dismiss other languages when created an English version.

[Kris]

Thank you both for your replies.


Reader Isaac's translation of the Octoechoes is from Church Slavonic. Holy Transfiguration Monastery in Boston is working on a translation of the Octoechoes (aka Paraklitiki), but from Greek text.


Do you have any idea when this translation is expected to be released?



From my studies into the textual differences, there really is not much difference for Saturday night Vespers and Matins. You will find differences during the rest of the week, particularly in the daily canons read at Matins and Small Compline.....Perhaps the Slavonic version reflects an older Greek text. I would think it does.


My main reason for asking was that I would like a text that reflects the Greek usage, since that is the tradition to which I belong. What you say about the Slavonic version reflecting an older Greek text seems quite plausible.

Given that the Russian Church was under the Ecumenical Patriarchate until 1448 (officially, until 1589), and the Nikonian reforms took place in 1652, at what point are the alterations to the Greek texts likely to have happened?

[Edward Henderson]

Well, if the Pre- and Post-Nikonian editions are identical, with exception to certain grammar reforms (veki vekov vs. veki vekom), and they were reforming the books to agree with the Greek, then we might say that the Greek Octoechoes changed sometime in the 18th and 19th centuries. I do not know. Perhaps it was associated with the liturgical reforms in the 19th century carried out by Ecumenical Patriarchate. I am not one to suggest that despite these differences one version is wrong and the other is right.