The child who dies before a family converts

[D. W. Dickens]

I come from a tradition that will not baptize children, very similar to Anabaptist thinking.
I have renounced that teaching along with other heresies I both believed and taught in the past.

But I am despairing. Before I knew of Orthodoxy, my oldest son fought with cancer for 3 years and lost. It is now several years later that my family comes to the True Faith. My 6 year old youngest son is baptized with us as is the practice of the Church from the time of the Apostles. But what of my lost son?

If one of my children can join the Church by my faith, why can't the other? Why is my son excluded for being untimely born? What a terrible sin for my wife and I to bear for our lifetime that we did not know of the Church in time to graft him to the vine!

Please offer me some teaching on this and comfort if there is any to be had. I have read much that is not comforting in researching on the web, such as that my Priest should not pray for my son.

[Olga]

There is nothing stopping an Orthodox Christian, cradle or convert, from praying for the health of the living, or the soul of the departed, of people who are not Orthodox, as part of his private devotions. In fact, this is to be encouraged and commended.

Perhaps what your priest was referring to was liturgical commemoration, such as at a requiem/mnimosyno/panikhida, be that a stand-alone service for an individual, or a general commemoration as conducted at Liturgy on the days known as Saturdays for the Souls. It is these "public" commemorations where only Orthodox Christians may be commemorated.

[Eric Peterson]

I come from a tradition that will not baptize children, very similar to Anabaptist thinking.
I have renounced that teaching along with other heresies I both believed and taught in the past.

But I am despairing. Before I knew of Orthodoxy, my oldest son fought with cancer for 3 years and lost. It is now several years later that my family comes to the True Faith. My 6 year old youngest son is baptized with us as is the practice of the Church from the time of the Apostles. But what of my lost son?

If one of my children can join the Church by my faith, why can't the other? Why is my son excluded for being untimely born? What a terrible sin for my wife and I to bear for our lifetime that we did not know of the Church in time to graft him to the vine!

Please offer me some teaching on this and comfort if there is any to be had. I have read much that is not comforting in researching on the web, such as that my Priest should not pray for my son.

My dear friend, do not despair. And do not beat yourself up over this. Your son is not lost, he is with God. It was God's providence that supported him and you and your family for the three years he suffered from cancer. It was God's lovingkindness that was present with you, as you said goodbye to him when his beloved soul parted from the body. It is God Who is his comfort now. If it had been God's will that you came to the Church then, it would have been so, but God's ways are mysterious and past our finding out--but we believe they are always for the good, because it is His will is perfect in mercy, kindness, justice and truth.

As for whether you sinned or not in somehow not knowing about the Orthodox Church at the time and baptizing your son, this seems to me a charge without foundation. You did not know. God is not ungracious. He does not expect you to have known something before He revealed it to you. Please, see your priest. Ask him about these things, and about praying for your son. And you, yourselves, pray for him. Say, "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, grant rest to Thy servant N." (This is what I was told to do by monks for my mother. She died without being Orthodox.) And do alms and good works in your son's name. And do not grieve as if your son is beyond hope because he was not baptized in time. Jesus Christ is your departed son's Savior, too. Where, for man, things are impossible, for God, all things are possible. Pray. And have faith.

God be with you!

[Paul Cowan]

AKATHIST for the REPOSE of Those Who have FALLEN ASLEEP

KONTAKION 1

O Thou Who by Thy inscrutable Providence didst prepare the world for eternal beatitude and Who appointest times and seasons and the manner of our end: Forgive, O Lord, those who have died in past ages all their sins, receive them into the realms of light and joy, hasten to open Thy Fatherly arms to them, and hear us who celebrate their memory and sing:
O Lord of unutterable Love, remember Thy servants who have fallen asleep.

IKOS 1

O Thou Who savest Adam and the whole human race from eternal perdition, Thou didst send Thy Son into the world, O Good God, and by His Cross and Resurrection Thou hast granted us also eternal life. Trusting to Thy infinite mercy, we look for the deathless Kingdom of Thy Glory, we implore Thee to grant it to those who have fallen asleep, and we pray: Gladden, O Lord, souls wearied by the storms of life, that earth’s sorrows and sighings may not bury them in oblivion. Hear them, O Lord, in Thy bosom, as a mother responds to her children, and say to them: Your sins are forgiven you. Receive them, O Lord, into Thy calm and blessed haven that they may rejoice in Thy divine glory.
O Lord of unutterable Love, remember Thy servants who have fallen asleep.

KONTAKION 2

Enlightened by the illumination of the Most High, Saint Macarius heard a voice from a pagan skull: “When you pray for those suffering in Hell, there is relief for the heathen.” O wonderful power of Christian prayer, by which even the infernal regions are illumined! Both believers and unbelievers receive comfort when we cry for the whole world: ALLELUIA.

IKOS 2

Saint Isaac the Syrian once said: “A merciful heart is one that burns with love for men and animals and for the whole of creation, and at all times offers prayers with tears that they may be purified and kept.” Likewise we all boldly ask the Lord for help for all the dead from the beginning of time and cry: Send down to us, O Lord, the gift of fervent prayer for the dead. Remember, O Lord, all who have charged us, unworthy as we are, to pray for them, and pardon the sins they have forgotten. Remember, O Lord, all who have been buried without prayer. Receive, O Lord, into Thy dwellings all who have died of sorrow or joy by a sudden or untimely death.
O Lord of unutterable Love, remember Thy servants who have fallen asleep.

KONTAKON 3

We are to blame for the calamities in the world, for the sufferings of dumb creatures, and for the diseases and torments of innocent children, for through the fall of man the beatitude and beauty of all creation has been marred. O Christ our God, greatest of innocent Sufferers! Thou alone canst forgive all. Forgive, then, all and everything, and grant to the world its primordial prosperity, that the living and the dead may rejoice and cry: ALLELUIA.

IKOS 3

O Glad Light, Redeemer of the world, embracing the whole universe with Thy love: behold, Thy cry from the Cross for Thy enemies is heard: “Father, forgive them.” In the name of Thy all-forgiving love we make bold to pray to our Heavenly Father for the eternal repose of Thy enemies and ours. Forgive, O Lord, those who have shed innocent blood, those who have sown our path of life with sorrows, those who have waded to prosperity through the tears of their neighbors. Condemn not, O Lord, those who persecute us with slander and malice. Repay with mercy those whom we have wronged or offended through ignorance, and grant that our prayer for them may be holy through the sacrament of reconciliation.
O Lord of unutterable Love, remember Thy servants who have fallen asleep.

KONTAKION 4

Save, O Lord, those who have died in grievous sufferings, those who were murdered, those buried alive, those who were drowned or burned, those who were torn by wild beasts, those who died of hunger or cold, from exposure in storms, or by falling from heights, and grant them all eternal joy for the sorrow of their death.. May the time of their suffering be blessed as a day of redemption, for which they sing: ALLELUIA.

IKOS 4

Recompense with the compassion of Thy infinite love, O Lord, all who have died in the full flush of their youth, who received on earth the thorny crown of suffering, who never experienced earthly joy. Grant recompense to those who died from overwork, through exploitation or sweated labor. Receive, O Lord, into the bridal halls of Paradise boys and girls, and grant them joy at the marriage supper of Thy Son. Comfort and console the grief of parents over their dead children. Give rest, O Lord, to all who have no one to offer prayer for them to Thee, their Creator, that their sins may vanish in the dazzling light of Thy forgiveness.
O Lord of unutterable Love, remember Thy servants who have fallen asleep.



KONTAKION 5

Thou hast given us death as a last prodigy to bring us to our senses and to repentance, O Lord. In its threatening light, earthly vanity is exposed, carnal passions and sufferings become subdued, insubmissive reason is humbled. Eternal justice and righteousness opens to our gaze, and then the godless and those burdened with sins confess on their deathbed Thy real and eternal existence and cry to Thy mercy: ALLELUIA.

IKOS 5

O Father of all consolation and comfort, Thou brightenest with the sun, delightest with fruits, and galddenest with the beauty of the world both Thy friends and enemies. And we believe that even beyond the grave Thy loving kindness, which is merciful even to all rejected sinners, does not fail. We grieve for hardened and wicked blasphemers of Thy Holiness. May Thy saving and gracious will be over them. Forgive, O Lord, those who have died without repentance. Save those who have committed suicide in the darkness of their mind, that the flame of their sinfulness may be extinguished in the ocean of Thy grace.
O Lord of unutterable Love, remember Thy servants who have fallen asleep.

KONTAKION 6

Terrible is the darkness of a soul separated from God, the torments of conscience, the gnashing of teeth, the unquenchable fire and the undying worm. I tremble at the thought of such a fate, and I pray for those suffering in Hell as for myself. May our song descend upon them as refreshing dew as we sing: ALLELUIA.

IKOS 6

Thy light, O Christ our God, has shone upon those sitting in the darkness and shadow of death and those in Hell who cannot cry to Thee. Descend into the infernal regions of the earth, O Lord, and bring out into the joy of grace Thy children who have been separated from Thee by sin but who have not rejected Thee. For they suffer cruelly. Have mercy on them. For they sinned against Heaven and before Thee, and their sins are infinitely grievous, and Thy mercy is infinite. Visit the bitter misery of souls separated from Thee. Have mercy, O Lord, on those who hated the truth out of ignorance. May Thy love be to them not a consuming fire but the coolness of Paradise:
O Lord of unutterable Love, remember Thy servants who have fallen asleep.

KONTAKION 7

Endeavoring to give help by Thy might power to Thy servants who have fallen asleep, Thou hast appeared to their loved ones, O Lord, in mysterious visions clearly inspiring them to pray, that they may remember the departed, and do good works and labors of faith and love for them, crying: ALLELUIA.

IKOS 7

The universal Church of Christ unceasingly offers prayers every hour for the departed throughout the world, for the sins of the world are washed away by the most pure Blood of Thy divine crown, and the souls of those who have fallen asleep are translated from death to life and from earth to Heaven by the power of the prayers offered for them at God’s altars. May the intercession of the Church for the dead, O Lord, be a ladder to Heaven. Have mercy on them, O Lord, through the intercession of the most holy Mother of God and all the Saints. Forgive them their sins for the sake of Thy faithful who cry day and night to Thee. For the sake of innocent children, O Lord, have mercy on their parents, and by the tears of their mothers, forgive the sins of their children. For the sake of the prayers of innocent sufferers and the blood of martyrs, spare and have mercy on sinners. Receive, O Lord, our prayers and alms as a memorial of their virtues.
O Lord of unutterable Love, remember Thy servants who have fallen asleep.
KONTAKION 8

The whole world is a sacred and common graveyard, for in every place is the dust of our fathers and brothers. O Christ our God, Who alone unchangeably lovest us, forgive all who have died from the beginning till now, that they may sing with infinite love: ALLELUIA.

IKOS 8

The day is coming, as a burning furnace, the great and terrible day of the Last Judgment, when the secrets of men will be revealed and the books of conscience will be torn apart. “Be reconciled with God!” cries the Apostle Paul. “Be reconciled before that terrible day.” Help us, O Lord, to fill up with the tears of the living what was lacking in the dead. May the sound of the Angel’s trumpet, O Lord, be to them the glad announcement of their salvation and the joyful manumission of their freedom at the hour of Thy judgment. Crown with glory those who have suffered for Thee, O Lord, and cover the sins of the weak with Thy goodness. O Lord, Who knowest all by name, remember those who have sought salvation in the monastic life. Remember the blessed pastors with their spiritual children.
O Lord of unutterable Love, remember Thy servants who have fallen asleep.

KONTAKION 9

Bless swiftly passing time. For every hour, every moment brings eternity nearer. A new sorrow, a new gray hair are heralds of the coming world, witnesses of earthly corruption, for all is passing (they tell us) and the Eternal kingdom draws near, where there is no sorrow, no sighing, no tears, but joyful singing: ALLELUIA.

IKOS 9

Just as a tree loses its leaves after a time, so our days after a certain number of years come to an end. The festival of youth fades, the lamp of joy goes out, the alienation and dispossession of old age approaches. Friends and relations die. Where are you, young merrymakers? Their tombs are silent, but their souls are in Thy hand. Let us think how they watch us from the spiritual world. O Lord, Who art the brightest Sun, illumine and warm the abodes of those who have fallen asleep. May the time of our bitter separation pass for ever. Grant us a joyful meeting in Heaven. Grant that all may be one with Thee, O Lord. Restore to the departed, O Lord, the purity of childhood and the genial spirit of youth, and may eternal life be to them a Paschal Festival.
O Lord of unutterable Love, remember Thy servants who have fallen asleep.

KONTAKION 10

Shedding silent tears at the graves of our relatives, we pray with hope, and cry expectantly: Tell us, O Lord, that their sins are forgiven. Give our spirit a secret assurance of it, that we may sing: ALLELUIA.

IKOS 10

Looking back, I see the whole of our past life. What a vast multitude of people have departed from the first day until now! And many of them have done me good. In gratitude for what I owe them, with love I cry to Thee: Grant heavenly glory, O Lord, to my parents and those near and dear to me who watched over my cradle in childhood, and reared and educated me. Glorify, O Lord, in the presence of the Holy Angels all who have told me the glad tidings of salvation and have taught me what is right and good, just and true by the holy example of their lives. Fill with delight, O Lord, those who fed me on hidden manna in the days of my sorrow and affliction. Recompense and save all benefactors and all who have helped others personally and by prayer.
O Lord of unutterable Love, remember Thy servants who have fallen asleep.

KONTAKON 11

O death, where is thy sting? Where is the gloom and terror that held sway in the past? From now on thou art the longed for means of inseparable union with God. Oh, the great peace of the mystical Sabbath! We long to die and to be with Christ, cries the Apostle. Therefore, we too look upon death as the gateway to eternal life, and cry: ALLELUIA.

IKOS 11

The dead will rise and those who are in the graves will stand up, and those who are alive on earth will exult when they stand with their spiritual bodies, radiantly glorious and incorrupt. Dry bones, hear the word of the Lord: “I will bring upon you a spirit of life, and will lay sinews upon you; and I will bring flesh upon you, and cover you with skin.” Rise out of the ancient past, you who are redeemed by the Blood of the Son of God, restored to life by His death, for the light of the Resurrection has dawned upon you. Open to them now, O Lord, the whole abyss of Thy perfections. Thou hast shone upon them with the light of the sun and moon, that they may see the glory of the radiant choirs of Angels, Thou hast delighted them with the magnificence of the heavenly lights of East and West, that they may also see the never-setting light of Thy Divinity.
O Lord of unutterable Love, remember Thy servants who have fallen asleep.

KONTAKON 12

Flesh and blood will not inherit the Kingdom of God. While we live in the flesh, we are separated from Christ. And if we die, we live for eternity. For our corruptible body must put on incorruption, and this mortal nature must shine with immortality, that in the light of the eternal day we may sing: ALLELUIA.

IKOS 12

We expect to meet the Lord, we expect the clear dawn of the Resurrection, we expect the rousing from their tombs of our dead relatives and acquaintances and their restoration to the most holy beauty of life. And we rejoice in the coming transfiguration of all creation, and cry to our Creator: O Lord, Who didst create the world for the triumph of joy and goodness, Who hast restored us to holiness from the depths of sin, grant that the dead may reign in the new creation, and may shine as heavenly lights in the day of their glory. May the Divine Lamb be their perpetual light. Grant, O Lord, that we too may celebrate with them a deathless Passover. Unite the dead and the living in unending joy.
O Lord of unutterable Love, remember Thy servants who have fallen asleep.

KONTAKON 13 (3 times)

O most merciful and eternal Father, Whose will it is that all should be saved, Who didst send Thy Son to the lost and didst pour out Thy Life-giving Spirit: Have mercy on our relatives and those who are near and dear to us who have fallen asleep, and on all who have died throughout the ages; forgive and save them, and by their intercession visit us, that with them we may shout to Thee, our God and Saviour, the song of victory: ALLELUIA.

IKOS 1

O Thou Who savest Adam and the whole human race from eternal perdition, Thou didst send Thy Son into the world, O Good God, and by His Cross and Resurrection Thou hast granted us also eternal life. Trusting to Thy infinite mercy, we look for the deathless Kingdom of Thy Glory, we implore Thee to grant it to those who have fallen asleep, and we pray: Gladden, O Lord, souls wearied by the storms of life, that earth’s sorrows and sighings may not bury them in oblivion. Hear them, O Lord, in Thy bosom, as a mother responds to her children, and say to them: Your sins are forgiven you. Receive them, O Lord, into Thy calm and blessed haven that they may rejoice in Thy divine glory.
O Lord of unutterable Love, remember Thy servants who have fallen asleep.

KONTAKION 1

O Thou Who by Thy inscrutable Providence didst prepare the world for eternal beatitude and Who appointest times and seasons and the manner of our end: Forgive, O Lord, those who have died in past ages all their sins, receive them into the realms of light and joy, hasten to open Thy Fatherly arms to them, and hear us who celebrate their memory and sing:
O Lord of unutterable Love, remember Thy servants who have fallen asleep.

PRAYER FOR THOSE WHO HAVE FALLEN ASLEEP

O God of spirits and all flesh, Who hast trampled down death, overthrown the devil, and given life to Thy world: Give rest, O Lord, to the souls of Thy servants who have fallen asleep, Patriarchs, Metropolitans, Archbishops, Bishops, Priests and Deacons, Monks and Nuns, and all who have served Thee in Thy Church; the founders of all Churches and Monasteries, and all Orthodox forefathers, fathers, brothers and sisters who lie here and everywhere; officers and men of the armies and navies who have laid down their lives for their Faith and country, all the faithful killed in civil wars, all who were drowned, burned, frozen to death, torn by wild beasts, all who died suddenly without repentance and had no time to be reconciled with the Church and with their enemies; all who took their own lives in a moment of mental unbalance; all who have asked us to pray for them, and those who have no one to pray for them, and all who died without a Christian burial, (NAMES), in a place of light, in a place of refreshment, in a place of repose, whence all suffering, sorrow, and sighing have fled away. Forgive every sin committed by them in thought, word and deed, for Thou art the good God and Lover of men. For there is no one who lives without sinning. Thou alone art without sin, and Thy righteousness in eternal righteousness, and Thy Word is Truth.
For Thou art the Resurrection, the Life, and the Repose of Thy servants who have fallen asleep (NAMES), O Christ our God, and to Thee we send up glory, with Thy Eternal Father, and Thy Holy and Good and Lifegiving Spirit, both now and ever and to the ages of ages. Amen.

[Olga]

From the Orthodox funeral service for children:

O Lord, who watches over children in the present life and in the world to come because of their simplicity and innocence of mind, abundantly satisfying them with a place in Abraham's bosom, bringing them to live in radiantly shining places where the spirits of the righteous dwell: receive in peace the soul of Your little servant (Name), for You Yourself have said, "Let the little children come to Me, for of such is the Kingdom of Heaven."

[D. W. Dickens]

I appreciate the responses. They are a salve for me today. I'm going to confession tomorrow, perhaps that's why I'm digging this out again. I have spoken with my priest, only a little. I've always been worried that I would put him in the position of having to say something I could not bear to hear (or worse, that would break my wife in half).

There is much I can say about this, but best not today when the hurt is so keen. However, there are real sticky points. I've been told that it is not appropriate to pray for non-Orthodox during the services (yes, I know the obvious conflict since we pray for the President and all sorts of other non-Orthodox in our services). Even Fr Thomas Hopko said not to bring private prayers to the service. More importantly, in my ignorance, he was cremated and I am told (cremated or not) he cannot have an Orthodox funeral.

I've seen this Akathist before, but I'm told it is for private use at home and that the priest cannot add our son's name to those he prays for in the Divine Liturgy. Frankly, I've never asked him because I don't want to tempt him out of compassion for me, if such a thing is improper.

Of course, I don't need to bring up controversies about toll houses and the like, as there is enough to repent of. You say that I have no foundation for my self-incrimination. But I do. I was brought up in a God-fearing protestant home, full of the scripture. But I had much pride in my learning and teaching of many heresies. As father and husband, my responsibilities are clearly listed in scripture and I was not sufficient to them.

Lord have mercy.

He was neither a good child, nor a bad one, he was never given much of a chance to be either. What he was was cursed from birth with a cancer and all I could offer him was the false instruction and vain comforts, no matter how much I try to love him, I failed him.

I'm sorry. Today is a bad day. Most days are better. It is not my intention to be inconsoleable.

[Moses Ibrahim]

First of all I believe many non-Orthodox Christians will enter the Kingdom of God. Saint Paul states in his letter to the Romans that unbelievers will be judged according to their own conscience as the law of God is inscribed in the heart of man. God will judge everyone differently and certainly we Christians will be judged more thoroughly than the unbelievers. I will give a brief example that I picked up from the Desert Fathers which will hopefully be of some comfort to you.

There were two infant sisters who were orphans. One was raised by sisters from a monastery and led a very pious life, the other sister was adopted by a prostitute and led a life of sin. Will God judge both sisters the same? Of course not, since God views each persons heart and each situation differently. The pious girl will be judged more harshly since she knew God and his commandments. The prostitute who didn't know God and his commandments will be judged very lightly in comparison to her sister.

Let us put our trust in God and thank Him for his simple judgments. The devil instills despair within us that we may be weighed down quickly, but let God be our strength (He will take care of our departed loved ones; let us pray for them and at the same time take care of ourselves that we may be counted worthy to be re-united with them)

[Vasiliki D.]

Please offer me some teaching on this and comfort if there is any to be had. I have read much that is not comforting in researching on the web, such as that my Priest should not pray for my son.

Oh, my heart is bleeding for you ... I understand your pain!

It is not for any of us to say if your son is or isnt saved ... we can only hope and pray in Gods mercy. Yes, the Orthodox church does have teachings on baptism, however, we also know of the power of prayer and love; against which are no rules ....

YOU and your family HAVE come to Christ through baptism into the one Body of Christ - spend your life in compassion and love and prayer and I believe that the divine economy of our Lord and Saviour will look after the soul of your son ... may his memory be eternal!

[Kusanagi]

But I am despairing. Before I knew of Orthodoxy, my oldest son fought with cancer for 3 years and lost. It is now several years later that my family comes to the True Faith. My 6 year old youngest son is baptized with us as is the practice of the Church from the time of the Apostles. But what of my lost son?


Well your son is saved through your whole family's prayers. Tell your wife a mother's prayer is extremely powerful before God. I think both Fr Cleopa and Porphryios mentions this.

Also i believe Fr Cleopa mentions that a child dying at a young age before baptism is in front of God as an angel. He quoted from scriptures about the little ones angels are constantly before God, I understood this passage as them having an angel before baptism.

[George R.]

D.W.,
We were alerted about your posting by a dear friend and my sponsor, as we also lost a son prior to becoming Orthodox. Our situation is a bit different in that Isaac reposed shortly before being born, so we never got to see him alive, but he was very alive in his mom, and she more than anyone knew him as a little person. The grief was and continues to be terrible, especially as his mom had to give birth knowing the outcome - and he was a beautiful boy.

We became Orthodox a few years after this event, and had wondered about Isaac's welfare and whereabouts, so to speak, and all I can do is pass on to you what our priest told us, and beyond that some personal feelings on the matter which you and your wife may consider.

First, our priest said there is no doubt about the welfare of a baby who has died, as he may be considered like a saint, having never sinned. I would believe this about a 3 year old as much as I do about our child, and if a human father feels this way, how much more would our Heavenly Father, who loves mankind. This being the case, I consider such a child to be far more Orthodox than I'll ever be.

We have a strong sense that there is a relationship between Isaac's death and our subsequent conversion to Holy Orthodoxy. The breaking of our hearts, the shock to our status quo, maybe things like that were factors, but our conviction is that Isaac interceded for us. We had already been dissatisfied with our previous confessions of faith, believing there must be something more authentic, but we knew nothing about Orthodoxy until after we lost Isaac. I'm not saying that our conversion to the true Faith was worth losing a child over - we would give anything to still have Isaac and find Orthodoxy together. But us having lost him, and he having lost us in this life, maybe he did what he could to ensure our future reunion, as do all the Saints.

Concerning lack of baptism, there are in the Lives of the Saints a number of saints who died without having been baptized, but who were considered to have been baptized based on their situation. It's just my opinion, but I would consider your son to have in fact been baptized.

My wife sometimes posts her thoughts about Isaac and our situation on her blog. She's reading Dostoevsky's Karamazov, and today read the passage where Elder Zosima counsels the grieving mother of a departed 3 year old boy. It is astonishing to us how the Elder's words so closely echo our own feelings about where Isaac is and what he's up to. If you haven't read Dostoevsky's words on this, I think you'll find some deep comfort there. My wife included in the posting a photo of an icon given us by my sponsor, which helped us immensely. Hoping not to be presumptuous, I'd like to suggest that an icon like that one may be helpful to you. Her post is at http://bloggingsbetter.wordpress.com/2009/02/09/brothers-karamazov-ii-grieving-over-infants-who-have-died/

I hope there is some small comfort in these thoughts, and I'm sorry for your loss.

Yours in Christ,
George
"

[Olga]

I'll try to post more selections for the Orthodox funeral service for children, which is substantially different from the service for an adult. There is much in this service to draw comfort from. Please bear with me...

[Andrew D. Morrell]

"Be kind. Everyone you meet is fighting a great battle." St. Philo

DW, George... my heart is breaking for you and your families. You and your precious departed children will be in my prayers often.

In Christ's love,
Andrew

[Nina]

But I am despairing. Before I knew of Orthodoxy, my oldest son fought with cancer for 3 years and lost.

Do you know that he is a martyr of the battle with cancer? I have heard this said by an Archbishop (about martyrdom from cancer). Whoever has seen someone endure the great pains of cancer can agree. Additionally, your son was a child at the time of his departure. He is with God! Actually his prayers may have had a lot to do with you coming to Orthodoxy. He is close to God and helps you with his prayers. Be in peace.

[Mary]

I do not know what it's like to lose a child. I have lost my father. He wasn't orthodox, however, he was a just man. Hardworking. Kind to everyone. Generous. Spoke little. etc etc. When I was converting, I wanted to know where my dad was. I"m never going to be half the person that he was, so it didn't seem fair that I should have found the Orthodox Church, and he didn't. But soon, I realized, that it would be unforgivable, if I turned my back on the Orthodox church. However, Dad had a chance, because he did not know. I believe, God doesn't judge us based on what we should've known and done, but based on what we do with what knowledge we do have. Dad was faithful to what he knew. He tried his best, to please God in all things. And God is merciful. That's pretty much all that I have claim to as well. I am not going to be saved because I have now been baptised into the orthodox church. But I will be saved, if I persist to the end, because of God's mercy.

It's sort of like the story of the talents... you do your best with what you've got, whether it is ten talents, or five or one. We have been given ten. My Dad had five. I have buried my ten. Dad doubled his five. So, although he wasn't orthodox, there's a greater chance for him to be saved, than for me. This is my understanding. I also have my entire load of relatives and friends who are not orthodox. And they may never convert before they die. So then, where will my mother be? My sister and her family? My brother and his? I think it's best to leave them all in God's hand, pray that they will be faithful, and then, focus on ourselves, because we have been given much. After all, only God can save them. And us.

And He is merciful. That is our Hope. Our hope is not in what we know. Or what we do. Not in our prayers and our fasting and our baptisms and our liturgies. It is in Him and Him alone. That's not to say these dont' matter, only that, He is just as capable of saving those who do not have these. If you remember the story of the final judgment, there are people there, who are saved, who have no idea why... perhaps those are the people who weren't baptised into the orthodox church. Then there are those who are surprised that they are not saved... perhaps those are the people who were baptised into the orthodox church...

In Christ,
Mary.

[Robert Hegwood]

Dear Mary,

With respect to your loss of your father, I've family story that might be of some use. Many years ago long before I was Orthodox or even interested in Orthodoxy my grandmother passed away. She was a devout little Southern Baptist woman, hardworking, kind hearted, and always singing hymns as she went about her daily chores. Her heart was always with God.

Now it happened that I have a cousin who married a Greek man and converted to Orthodoxy in order to marry him and at the time my grandmother passed away she had two small children (they are much older now). One day my cousin had her children in a stroller and was about to cross a street and had started into the crosswalk when she very clearly heard my grandmother's voice say, "You get those babies back on the sidewalk, right now!" It so startled her she jumped back onto the curb with the stroller. That very instant a drunk driver ran the red light and flew through the intersection, right where they would have been.

I am not the most clever of men, but I would find it very odd to suppose my grandmother would be looking out for her Orthodox grandchildren if she did not have a vantage point in her repose that permited her to see and act...a vantage point with Christ. It is not possible for me to even imagine that she is not in the abode of the blessed. That said, I still pray for the repose of her soul according to the prayer given to me by my own godfather which is for those who have died outside the Orthodox faith. So if your father had any love for the Lord or even for those who loved the Lord and who loved him, I find it difficult to believe that such love should perish.

[D. W. Dickens]

Nina, I would certainly like to know the Bishop's name. I specifically asked my priest if my son could be considered such a martyr particularly since he was old enough to understand his condition (7 when the cancer was diagnosed) and submitted in all things in faith of God and obedience to his parents and doctors. But my priest expressed doubts about that and discouraged my inquiry into that matter. The only thing my son said about his own death (at 10 years old) was that he regretted that he would never have children of his own.

Morrell, that Philo quote is my wife's email signature. :-) I'm surprised that you called him St. Philo though, I thought Philo was Jewish.

George, I appreciate you sharing your story. I go radically back and forth between wanting to wear a t-shirt that announces to the world my loss and desiring never to speak of it again. I always honor the sharing of remembrances. I will be praying for you and your family. Our son was also named Isaac. I have ordered an icon of the patriarch he was named for and since I can find no prayers to him I will probably ask for permission from my spiritual father to write some. If you'd like I'll share them with you when they are done. I don't know how such stuff is done, but it must be able to be done as we have plenty of books full of services. If I'm going to learn this is as good a reason as any.

Mary, one of the strange experiences of coming to Orthodoxy is coming to realize that Christianity isn't a plaything. Our relationship with God is serious business and the parables (talents, the virgins and their lamps, etc) all deeply convict me about how God's revelation in our lives is both a wonderful and a terrible (terrible here, not meaning bad but fearful) thing. As a protestant I felt the imminent damnation of the souls of the world and a pressure to "dunk" them and move on to the next as quickly as possible. Now I realize the gravity of my former heresies.

Thank you all. I am healed by your posts and your prayers.

[Father David Moser]

Nina, I would certainly like to know the Bishop's name. I specifically asked my priest if my son could be considered such a martyr particularly since he was old enough to understand his condition (7 when the cancer was diagnosed) and submitted in all things in faith of God and obedience to his parents and doctors. But my priest expressed doubts about that and discouraged my inquiry into that matter. The only thing my son said about his own death (at 10 years old) was that he regretted that he would never have children of his own.

Just a thought - perhaps martyr would not be the best choice of terms. What you describe (the complete submission to the providence of God) fits more in the category of "passion-bearer" that is one who bears all manner of suffering without complaining or without turning away for Christ. Passion-bearers and martyrs are very close in many cases, the only difference being the actual motive of the persecutor.

Fr David Moser

[Nina]

By no means I wish to contradict the words of Father David since what he says makes so much sense, however I would like to post the words regarding sufferers from cancer, of the Archbishop of Tirana and all Albania delivered during the eulogy for Lynette Hoppe who was an Orthodox American missionary in Albania (I have known her personally and she was angel-like and splendid personality and also she was suffering from cancer at the same time with my mother and departed one month before my mother did - actually when we were at church for my mom's 3rd day memorial service, it was Lynette's 40th day memorial service.)


Lynette is a modern secret martyr. In other ages, the faithful were confronted by lions and other threats; now in our age one of their names is cancer.

+ His Beatitude Anastasios,
Archbishop of Tirana and all Albania

Link (http://www.ocmc.org/images/PDFs/Magazine_Vol22_No2.pdf) to article which is found in pg. 5

Maybe these words provided peace of soul also for me since these words came at the right time when I lost my mother (also His Beatitude mentioned similar words when he came to pray at my mother's bed and just some hours later she delivered her soul after 15 days of extreme suffering). However since this illness (cancer) is so widespread its sufferers remain secret (anonymous) as His Beatitude mentions. But who knows what crown our loving God will give them in Heaven, or what the suffering is able to purify? There are many unknown saints, or martyrs. Some I have heard have prayed to God to remain anonymous even after departing this world. As we can see for their souls, it is not important what glory, recognition we give them here. What is more important is the crown they receive from God in Heaven.

[D. W. Dickens]

Nina, you are very kind to me. I am fine with Fr David's distinction between martyr and passion-bearer. However, I'm not going to argue with an Archbishop either. I seek no grand name for my son other than that the name he had be written in the Lamb's Book of Life.

His sin is my sin, his absence from the Church is my shame, and I pray that if there is some reason for God to consider Isaac unworthy, that as his father I ask God pass such judgment on my heart and to illumine instead my son's.

[Nina]

I seek no grand name for my son other than that the name he had be written in the Lamb's Book of Life.

I as an Orthodox do not know if my name (or my Orthodox relatives) is or not in the Book of Life. Do not worry about it. Pray to God and leave it in His hands. I had a discussion with a dear friend the other day. We both are under canon from our SF not to read books of the Fathers at the moment because in my case I got so scared when I read something that has to do with our sins, confession and Holy Communion. My friend having read the same book confirmed my thought that: We, even Orthodox, can do nothing to be saved, because things are so complicated when you go deeper... Only His Love and Mercy can save us! Only our Lord Jesus Christ. These words do not mean that the Church did not provide us the means because the Sacraments esp Confession and Holy Communion are there to help us. However believe me when I say that when I read that book (actually parts of it) I truly understood what the mercy of God does for us here and in the life to come. Concentrate on your salvation dear brother in Christ, because your son has finished his race and maybe God has given him splendid crowns that words can't describe. If you wish to do something maybe help a needy orphan, widow, or monastic and you can ask them to pray for your son. What is your son's name if I may ask? Oh and I know for sure that monastics here when asked to pray for a non-Orthodox they do komboskinia for them (pray with prayer rope) and St. Jospeh the Hesychast has mention something about the power of their prayers too. Also your priest can pray in private. You can ask him to remember your son in his personal prayers since a blessing/prayer of a priest although not said during Liturgy has great strength in front of God.


His sin is my sin, his absence from the Church is my shame, and I pray that if there is some reason for God to consider Isaac unworthy, that as his father I ask God pass such judgment on my heart and to illumine instead my son's.

First I had to read these words a couple of times to understand what you mean here. I completely disagree. Do not blame yourself and your spouse! You came in Orthodoxy at the time when God willed it! Rejoice and be happy! And I still beleive that your son may have had something to do with your conversion. His prayers follow you. Try not to despair, but have your hope in God and trust His endless mercy.

[Father David Moser]

His sin is my sin, his absence from the Church is my shame, and I pray that if there is some reason for God to consider Isaac unworthy, that as his father I ask God pass such judgment on my heart and to illumine instead my son's.

Remember also the witness of St Xenia of Petersburg who took on her deceased husband's life - even wearing his clothing and answering to his name, becoming, in the process, known as a fool - in order that by her life and her prayers, she might help in bringing about his salvation.

Fr David Moser

[Robert Hegwood]

With regard to eternity I recall one old monastic story...perhaps about Elder Porphyrhios, perhaps of another, I no longer remember for sure, but I do remember the story.

The elder was very old and not far from death and one of his disciples asked him what he should say when he stood before the Lord and the Lord asked him if he should go to heaven or to hell. The elder replied, "I shall say, wherever Thy love places me O Lord, wherever Thy love places me. Only do not seperate me from Thy love."

That I think strikes the right balance between a perhaps presumptuous "assurance", and fearful despair in the face of our faults and failures. It is the sober but joyful trust in and desire for His love. It makes no claims, harbors no fears, and asks only that the Lord in His judgments not let the bond of love with Him be broken or obscured.

[Vasiliki D.]

Remember also the witness of St Xenia of Petersburg who took on her deceased husband's life - even wearing his clothing and answering to his name, becoming, in the process, known as a fool - in order that by her life and her prayers, she might help in bringing about his salvation.

Fr David Moser

St Xenia Fool-for-Christ and my compassionate guide through your intercessions and God-pleasing life, remember us all and pray that we all learn how to "wear" the coat of another person's troubles aad problems ... in the process praying for the other person because we can feel them as if they are ourselves ... for God's commandement is to Love our Neighbours as we would love ourselves.

- As St Paul says, "love always endures, always hopes, delights in what is good, grives over injustice; love will never come to an end."

- LOVE breaks barriers ... LOVE breaks rules --- Only with the Grace of God is anything possible because He is the Law Maker ... and He is Merciful and He is the Judge ...

[Paul Cowan]

Our son was also named Isaac. I have ordered an icon of the patriarch he was named for and since I can find no prayers to him I will probably ask for permission from my spiritual father to write some. If you'd like I'll share them with you when they are done. I don't know how such stuff is done, but it must be able to be done as we have plenty of books full of services. If I'm going to learn this is as good a reason as any.


Here is a start.


Sunday of the Holy Fore-Fathers
Troparion (Tone 2)
Thou didst justify the Forefathers by faith, when of old through them Thou didst betroth Thyself to the Church of the nations. The Saints rejoice in the glorious fruit of their seed, even in her who bore Thee seedlessly. By their prayers, O Christ our God, save our souls.

243

I don't think I did the icon right. Sorry. It is of St. Isaac from Come and See icons

I don't knwo if your son was named after St. Isaac the Patriarch or the Assyrian (http://home.iprimus.com.au/xenos/ephraim.html), but here is a Kontakion for you.

[Andrew D. Morrell]

Morrell, that Philo quote is my wife's email signature. :-) I'm surprised that you called him St. Philo though, I thought Philo was Jewish.


Oy! You are absolutely correct, DW! I was raised by a Jewish Dad and a Lutheran Mom (I was a Jewtheran) and read a lot of old writings when I was attempting to grow up... and now, as a recent convert to Orthodoxy, in my newly confused state I often find myself assuming that any ancient dead guy with a clue is a saint.

<SMILE> I need to talk to my priest about this...

And I will truly keep your families in my prayers.

In Christ,
Andrew

[George R.]

D.W.

I didn't pick up on the age of your Isaac when he reposed - I thought he was younger. Nevertheless, my previous comments (all of them) remain unchanged. I believe that your son is before the Throne interceding for you, for his mother, and for the rest of his family, as our Isaac is for us.

My sins and failures are paramount and may require a lifetime of repentance, and I trust God (presumptively) to pardon me and accept me in His Kingdom, if I continue in the Faith by His enabling. But I think there has never existed a 10 year old who didn't take his place with the saints, by the prayers of the Theotokos at least.

We would cherish the prayer you compose to the Patriarch Isaac if you'd be willing to share it with us in due time.

Andrew - we welcome and thank you for your prayers, and from others on this forum.

[Stephen Wendland]

D.W.,

I will certainly remember your son in my feeble prayers. You say that your son was only seven when diagnosed. I do not believe that had he been Orthodox, that he would have been old enough to go to confession. That said, it would not seem that he would have been fully accountable to sin. Sure children do bad things but I am not so sure this is the same as when an adult willfully sins. To me it makes little sense to beat ourselves up over what could have been or worry about what will be. We live only in the present. What is repentance for, if not for another chance to make the right choices and move closer to God? We know so little of the mysteries of God, so I think it wise to trust that God is Love, in a way that goes beyond our ignorant categories of what we believe love should be. Was it not St. Isaac that said not to call God just? I do not believe that God is a tyrant waiting for us to mess up. If you love your son, how much more must God love him. Anyway I do not speak from some lofty place, as a person with a perfect life and so on. I have more doubts than you could possibly imagine. I write from my own pain as well. Please go to the prayer request section and read of my son Elias. The thread is "Prayer for a sick child". Please pray for him and I will pray for you your family and your son. Mostly I will pray for you as you seem to bear a great burden of guilt. Remember, our Lord is merciful and loves mankind. I use my experience for a chance of repentance. Somehow our task is to carry a rather large cross and find God in the despair but not giving in to it. I went on a search over a year ago to try and figure things out. I have learned a lot but I have not learned to pray. This seems to be so crucial in order to know God and not just know about Him. All the rules and regulations and cannons of the church may point towards God but they can not replace the experience of God. If we get stuck splitting hairs we may miss something. I know that there is nothing comforting that one could say, but I will never stop trying to comfort others. May our great God and savior Jesus Christ have mercy on you.

In Christ, Stephen

[Father David Moser]

You say that your son was only seven when diagnosed. I do not believe that had he been Orthodox, that he would have been old enough to go to confession.

A bit off topic - but just to clarify. Generally a child under the age of 6 or 7 is not required to go to confession, but any child may take confession if he wishes. I find that occasionally a small child, just able to talk will see Mommy or Daddy at confession and think that he or she wants to go too. The confession of a young child is a wonderful thing to hear. Generally they don't yet have a clear concept of sin but they do know when they make Mommy upset or angry and they are always really sorry. Its a good time to teach simple prayers (like "Lord have mercy") and it leads to good habits when the child is older.

Fr David Moser

[D. W. Dickens]

Yeah, he is named for the Righteous Patriarch Isaac. Though my Isaac has fallen asleep, Abraham's faith remains mine. Abraham wasn't convinced that God would prevent him from obeying, but rather that even if Abraham obeyed God, God would still bring about His promise in Isaac. Abraham accepted that God would keep the covenant though Abraham could not conceive how:
http://josephpatterson.wordpress.com/2009/02/10/why-did-god-test-abraham/

I and my house remain committed to God. In fact, we have come to the Church and seen God's promise fulfilled in our son's death though we could not understand at the time. His name was prophetic, though I don't know what to make of that.

I purchased an icon from a group I felt a bit uneasy buying from, but at the time it was the only one I could find:
http://www.dormitionskete.org/DsWebStore/images/DsProducts/0288.jpg

I had lunch with my priest today and we talked about this. He believes that I'll find enough in the service of the Holy Fore-Fathers and what he called the General Menaion. But I've searched and while I can find a GM for a Prophet, I can't find one for a Fore-Father.

Vasiliki, St Xenia has come up time and again for us. If I were not already committed to wife and my son (and daughter-coming-soon) I would be sorely tempted to follow her example.

[Vasiliki D.]

My dear, you CAN commit to her example with the circumstances that God gives you ... we are all called to be prayerful and loving.

What made her a saint? Was it her homelessness or was it her heart's intention? It is not the homelessness .. much like fasting ... these are means to an end .. the end is the love radiating in her heart for her fellow human beings and the compassion she had ... THIS IS the example we ALL can follow - married, single, divorce, monastic, not-monastic!

It is Christ's example - self-sacrifice!

Self-sacrifice yourself daily for your wife and your family!!

[D. W. Dickens]

So many responses tonight! We are saved by all your prayers!

Father David makes a good point and reminds me of my second son Elijah now 6 who would not consider it Church if he were not involved, kissing icons, crossing himself, lighting candles in memory of his brother and for his sister-coming-soon. He has not yet inquired about confession, but I think in a few months he'll insist on that as well.

We is much more interested in Orthodox services than our old Protestant ones where he couldn't be involved and just "sat there". I suspect that as we are a small parish he'll soon be helping our priest as well.

He was delighted when we put up our patron's icons on our icon wall, particularly as it seemed appropriate (as we don't have one of St John the Baptist) to put Elijah next to Christ. He wants to be next to Christ! God has been more than generous with a son worth two! Forgive this if it is improper, but I cannot help but delight in my son who lives.

Stephen, I will go and read your post and certainly we will pray for you and your son.

Morrell, my first insight that I had, that there was something wrong with my protestant upbringing was a Jewish convert at my Church and how differently he read the scripture. What reverence! I instantly knew something was deficient in my tradition, I just didn't know what (at that time).

Thank you all again. I suspect that long after the interest in this thread has faded, I will return to reread it for strength.

[Olga]

Here is a link to the vespers text for the Sunday of the Forefathers (unfortunately, this source does not have the matins text, which, I'm sure, would contain much more detail on individual patriarchs, including Isaac:

http://www.anastasis.org.uk/sunday_of_the_ancestors.htm

I have not come across a "general service" for a Forefather in menaia of either Greek or Slavic tradition, only for a Prophet. The Great Canon of St Andrew of Crete would also contain verses referring to the patriarchs, including Isaac. This epic penitential canon is sung in stages at Great Compline on the first four days of the first week of Great Lent.

[Father David Moser]

I had lunch with my priest today and we talked about this. He believes that I'll find enough in the service of the Holy Fore-Fathers and what he called the General Menaion. But I've searched and while I can find a GM for a Prophet, I can't find one for a Fore-Father.


The Sunday of the Forefathers in this case is the Sunday before Nativity. It is a special service for that Sunday. St John of Kronstadt Press has that service and you can order it individually from them for pretty much the cost of the copy. If you can get ahold of a general menaion (not the one with generic services, but rather the real menaion with the services for the saints of each day) it will be there for the Sunday before Nativity.

Fr David Moser