View Full Version : Pre-Lenten Stress (PLS)
Herman Blaydoe
21-02-2009, 04:20 PM
Having been through quite a few Orthodox Lents, I have observed an interesting phenomenon and it has been commented on by others, so I don't think I am totally out on a limb here. Every year, in the weeks leading up to Lent, I have noticed that postings to various Orthodox fora become more heated and intense. Emotions seem to run a little higher in this time. I mean some people have strong emotions year-round and there are certainly heated discussions that go on at other times, but it really seems that they get a little more frequent around this time of year.
Reading the rather voluminous postings here of late, for example, bears this out I think. Thoughts seem a little "edgier" than normal. We find it much easier to take offense. We get a little too serious, at least for my taste and a sense of humor seems lacking. I don't pretend to know why, perhaps the evil one chooses this time for extra effort against us.
I mention this so that people might be aware that this is happening, and that perhaps a little extra consideration and even prayer might be appropriate before hitting the "enter" key or clicking on the "post" button. Perhaps a "In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" before composing a response to a particularly irritating post, and a "Let it be blessed" just before sending.
Perhaps I am only talking to myself, perhaps I am the only one who needs to be reminded. If so, please forgive and humor an old man with much on his mind.
Otherwise, what to the better minds than mine think? Might there be such a thing as PLS, or am I simply full of BS?
Herman the PLSing Pooh
M.C. Steenberg
21-02-2009, 04:53 PM
I thank you, Herman, for this note. You are quite right; and this is, indeed, an annual phenomenon at this time of year.
Of course, the Fathers speak to this. The demons provoke the passions with especial intention when the Church and those within it move to take the spiritual life and struggle more seriously: and here we stand near the threshold to the Great Fast.
Let us recognise this, and be careful of it. Your advice on preparations for posting are most welcome.
INXC, Dcn Matthew
D. W. Dickens
21-02-2009, 05:22 PM
Having been through quite a few Orthodox Lents, I have observed an interesting phenomenon and it has been commented on by others, so I don't think I am totally out on a limb here.
This is only my first trip through the washing cycle, as it were, so I know nothing of what I speak. I can say for myself that I am certainly struggling against something unexpected. I knew that Clean Week in particular would probably provoke a great challenge in me, but that hasn't even arrived yet!
I also think that beginning to post on Monachos has prompted something as well (the two factors coming together to mix my emotions against my will). I really needed a good Orthodox discussion group, it seems I must work out my salvation with fear and trembling in a verbal way. I would not make a good monk.
But all this discussion is only good if it is turned for good and I have repeatedly repented in the last few days that I haven't brought the Beattitudes much to my postings here. So it's time to turn again and redouble my efforts.
(Repenting means to turn around. I'm doing it so often lately I'm dizzy.)
Owen Jones
21-02-2009, 08:44 PM
Lenten exercises are paradoxical in nature. If I'm restless, irritable, and discontented, and embarking on Lenten exercises, I am going to be forcing them. I'll not likely get the desired results and I will feel guilty as a failure, remorseful, and tend toward despondency, etc. So to a certain extent I must already be spiritually prepared and ready. On the other hand, the way to acquire inner peace and focus and spiritual strength is to do the exercises as prescribed!
So one approach is to break them down into very small steps that can be successfully taken and observed, and not worry about the things that we are not yet capable or spiritually ready to do. This is not necessarily what a priest would tell you, but an all or nothing approach is probably self-defeating. Then there is the urgency factor vs. the long-term. I can look at my Orthodox life in terms of a long journey and today is just one step, and giving up one little thing today that I am otherwise passionate or even compulsive about is just one more step in the right direction. On the other hand, there is always a sense of urgency about the Gospel, and looking at things in the long term can lead to laziness and complacency.
But my view is that it is better to succeed at one little thing at a time, and taste and experience that, so that we have something to look forward to when it comes to tackling the next thing, rather than viewing it as a burdensome task.
Father David Moser
21-02-2009, 10:03 PM
So one approach is to break them down into very small steps that can be successfully taken and observed, and not worry about the things that we are not yet capable or spiritually ready to do. This is not necessarily what a priest would tell you, but an all or nothing approach is probably self-defeating.
Well, I'm a priest and I seem to be telling people this constantly. Do the things that God puts in front of you today. All that God asks is that you do the best that you are able and offer that to Him. He then takes that incomplete, imperfect offering and fulfills what is needed making it perfect and complete and effectual for your salvation.
Fr David Moser
Ha ha ha Herman... It means that we are doing a good job then and that's why the fight (stress) is twofold (or 10 fold?).:P It is ok to have some hot blood, it is a propelling force to a deeper repentance. ;)
Alice
21-02-2009, 10:25 PM
Having been through quite a few Orthodox Lents, I have observed an interesting phenomenon and it has been commented on by others, so I don't think I am totally out on a limb here. Every year, in the weeks leading up to Lent, I have noticed that postings to various Orthodox fora become more heated and intense. Emotions seem to run a little higher in this time. I mean some people have strong emotions year-round and there are certainly heated discussions that go on at other times, but it really seems that they get a little more frequent around this time of year.
Reading the rather voluminous postings here of late, for example, bears this out I think. Thoughts seem a little "edgier" than normal. We find it much easier to take offense. We get a little too serious, at least for my taste and a sense of humor seems lacking. I don't pretend to know why, perhaps the evil one chooses this time for extra effort against us.
I mention this so that people might be aware that this is happening, and that perhaps a little extra consideration and even prayer might be appropriate before hitting the "enter" key or clicking on the "post" button. Perhaps a "In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" before composing a response to a particularly irritating post, and a "Let it be blessed" just before sending.
Perhaps I am only talking to myself, perhaps I am the only one who needs to be reminded. If so, please forgive and humor an old man with much on his mind.
Otherwise, what to the better minds than mine think? Might there be such a thing as PLS, or am I simply full of BS?
Herman the PLSing Pooh
Dear Herman,
Christ is among us!
I totally, totally agree with your keen observation and have noticed it too, and that is why I asked forgiveness if I had irritated, annoyed or offended anyone (especially my sisters in Christ) in my last post on the 'different sins of men and women'...It was curious that I did not get any responses to that! :-(
Hmmm...Oh well--now atleast I can chalk it up to PLS!! LOL!!
Thanks for bringing this Orthodox 'syndrome' to my attention...now I won't beat myself up so much anymore.
I also thank you for the much needed smile I got from your excellent and LIGHT and humorous post.
All the best and every blesing of the Lenten season to you and yours,
Alice
Antonios
22-02-2009, 02:01 AM
Dear friends and especially Nina,
Forgive me. I am a sinner who thinks he knows more than he does. May God have mercy on me and help me concentrate on my own sins and failures rather than judge others.
I wish everyone the best this blessed Lent and may the Comforter come and abide in all of us. I look forward to the time we shall sing once again 'Christ is Risen'.
In Christ,
Antonios
Dear friends and especially Nina,
Forgive me.
In Christ,
Antonios
Antonios, you did nothing to me to apologize! Discussing is good because it enriches all of us. Rest assured that I have no bad feelings from interacting with you in the thread. You are my brother in Christ.
This was a serious request from you, and that's why I replied to you as in above. Otherwise I would have joked and said: "I do not forgive you until the Forgiveness Sunday!" :P
Paul Cowan
22-02-2009, 02:21 AM
Now hold on ya'll, before everyone goes askng for frogiveness, save some of it for next Sunday. Otherwise we'll just be here twiddling out thumbs next weekend.
Now hold on ya'll, before everyone goes askng for frogiveness, save some of it for next Sunday. Otherwise we'll just be here twiddling out thumbs next weekend.
What do you mean? We can just start fighting again in two minutes so Forgiveness Sunday does not go in vain this year. :P
Rick H.
22-02-2009, 02:30 PM
Yes, Herman, thanks for the smile and the astute observation. I have noticed this as well during the past two years. And, it seems that as we consider the "spirit of confusion" this is a real factor as well with some of this. Not all of this, but some. I wonder if anyone else has ever noticed that with some of the regular contributors who somewhat know each other and normally understand each other very well, and are very intelligent individuals . . . at this time of the year, we read exchanges where these same people just can't seem to grasp at all what the other is saying. But, even more than this, what the other is saying is completely misinterpreted . . . things are heard that are not said. It's like with some the IQ drops about 50 points or more and there is only a "spirit of confusion" which usually soon escalates into a full blown PLS syndrome complete with mini-fits of hysteria. Ultimately though we know who the author of confusion is.
Thanks again for the good humor and for the pause to reflect.
Peter S.
22-02-2009, 11:23 PM
I wish everyone the best this blessed Lent and may the Comforter come and abide in all of us. I look forward to the time we shall sing once again 'Christ is Risen'.
In Christ,
Antonios
He is truly risen! :)
Well, I'm a priest and I seem to be telling people this constantly. Do the things that God puts in front of you today. All that God asks is that you do the best that you are able and offer that to Him. He then takes that incomplete, imperfect offering and fulfills what is needed making it perfect and complete and effectual for your salvation.
I tend to look back and think of what I could have done better instead of what I can do now or next. And the clock is ticking.
Peter
Vasiliki D.
22-02-2009, 11:31 PM
To be honest, I think this thread in itself holds a spirit of arrogance and was completely unnecessary; It puts certain people on the spot who may have been involved in the "spirit of confusion" and embaresses them unnecessarily. To me, this is not right and I am suprised that most people replied in this thread with applause!
In a somewhat paradox, indeed, one could put forward that this post in itself is a misunderstanding by most of what the actual "fights" are. Can you be certain that everyone who has been "fighting" was infact seeing it or intending it as a "fight" in the first place?
The thread also puts blame on the fallen angel. This was the key mistake of Adam and Eve - rather than taking responsibility for their own actions and choices they looked to put the blame on someone else.
For the most part, if there is misunderstanding (and I speak for myself first) I have no one else to blame but myself. My choices are to either not articulate myself well, out of laziness, OR I assume the other persons intent OR I do not take into account something important this is a global forum and people do not have the same background, culture, comprehension, intelligence, etc etc as myself and as such will aproach things differently to the way I like it to be ...
Respect.
So, seeing as we enter into Lent - lets not blame the devil for everything and lets blame ourselves for allowing ourselves to NOT act in a spirit of love, spirit of patience and a spirit of consideration.
VV I agree with some points you make.
To be honest, I think this thread in itself holds a spirit of arrogance and was completely unnecessary; It puts certain people on the spot who may have been involved in the "spirit of confusion" and embaresses them unnecessarily. To me, this is not right and I am suprised that most people replied in this thread with applause!
Interesting observation. I see no arrogance in Herman's post. He wasn't blaming the devil for ALL our misunderstandings. He was just pointing out, that during this season, temptations seem to increase from outside, and on the inside, we all seem to give in to them with a greater degree of frequency. Is that an arrogant observation?
Is it not wise to be aware of the fact that the demons are indeed actively trying to tear us down? I agree with you, that we shouldn't blame something or other for our own weaknesses and our inability to resist temptation. But, in saying that one shouldn't blame the devil, are you implying that the devil does not tempt us in any way?
And about being 'put on the spot' - if anyone feels convicted, then, all we need to do is ask for forgiveness, everyone will forgive us, and we go on. I don't see a problem with someone telling me I'm making a mess. But then, of course, I've been around and made a fool of myself frequently, and been generously forgiven by my brothers and sisters here, so I am shamelessly unembarrassed. For any new comers, who feel put on the spot - we love you, too. =)
In Christ,
Porcupine.
(PS - Paul - as you see, there will always be reason to ask for forgiveness on Forgiveness Sunday. I dont' know if that's good or bad...) =)
Vasiliki D.
23-02-2009, 12:34 AM
Interesting observation. I see no arrogance in Herman's post. He wasn't blaming the devil for ALL our misunderstandings. He was just pointing out, that during this season, temptations seem to increase from outside, and on the inside, we all seem to give in to them with a greater degree of frequency. Is that an arrogant observation?
Is it not wise to be aware of the fact that the demons are indeed actively trying to tear us down? I agree with you, that we shouldn't blame something or other for our own weaknesses and our inability to resist temptation. But, in saying that one shouldn't blame the devil, are you implying that the devil does not tempt us in any way?
In Christ,
Porcupine.
(PS - Paul - as you see, there will always be reason to ask for forgiveness on Forgiveness Sunday. I dont' know if that's good or bad...) =)
I do understand what you are saying I still do not agree with the spirit of this thread and that is not saying anything about the original poster since I find herman posts, on a regular basis, very interesting and relevant comments that I stand up and take notice of.
Respectfully, in this instance, I think it was unnecessary to create a PLS thread. I am sorry, I just dont think it is a compassionate Orthodox attitude to be highlighting issues since it DOES bring about judgement of others ...
I think of Christ's words .. I was hungry and you did not feed me .. etc ... what if someone on this thread is SO lonely that this is the only means of communication they have and that they thirst so much to talk about orthodoxy they are not conscious that they might be writing to much or saying it the wrong way? Not everything is the way it seems and so we just need to not highlight when we see something unusual ...
I give you an example, a few weeks ago I made a post ... people had a choice to react to it ... one person, rather than treating me with contemt wrote a reply that asked QUESTIONS of me to give ME the opportunity to clarify myself ... this was respected by me because i wasnt pre-judged! See the differenece?
In this instance, I think it was unnecessary to create a PLS thread .. I am sorry, i just dont think it is exemplary orthodox attitude since it DOES bring about judgement of others ...
And how does one judge whether a topic deserves it's own thread or not? If you don't think it does, then don't read it.
I don't find it to be judgmental. Quite the opposite actually, as it is just encouraging people to give each other a bit more space than usual, since everyone seems to be edgy and lacking in humor. I know I am.
m
And about being 'put on the spot' - if anyone feels convicted, then, all we need to do is ask for forgiveness,
Ha ha ha my sis Mary. The problem is not those who feel convicted, but those who do not! Since this thread is aimed for all who should be convicted. lol Anyway VV is right that we are no one to convict Another's servants.
Rick H.
23-02-2009, 12:57 AM
I dunno, Vasiliki . . . it occurs to me that many marriages, many families, and many churches suffer because of a lack of "communication."
To me it seems there is an excellent opportunity here in this thread for us to communicate some things we would never do otherwise.
"For example," what if some people here think it is too personal to address their posts or make their points directly to another poster? What if it is thought to be better to write using expressions like "some people" when we are really writing to address what has been said by one specific individual? To me this is often confusing, and I can see how this could cause misunderstandings.
I would think more than a few folks here will have noticed that I often have trouble reading between the lines in a conversation. Often, I miss so much of what is said, I think. Often, I find myself reading a post by another who is writing in code, so to speak, and I'm not sure if the expression "some people" applies to me, or another poster, or if it just a general remark. Like here's one . . . I think some people take things too personally and create a problem where one did not exist previously. Or, how about, I think some people need a little thicker skin if they are going to stick around here. What have I just said? Who am I addressing this to? Am I being judgmental, or am I now guilty of using monachos as an outlet for personal disturbance like some people do? :0) . . . see what I mean? How many stomachs just tightened up reading these hypothetical examples?
So, I agree with Pooh (I know him well enough to call him Pooh) . . . there is a PLS, but I am not so sure it is not fueled and aggravated by these things that we are discussing here in this thread at certain times of the year.
Think about it please, while often 'avoidance' is the best strategy when things become combative or confrontational, how can there be any resolution at all, in any stage of a change and conflict cycle without good communication?
Ha ha ha my sis Mary. The problem is not those who feel convicted, but those who do not! Since this thread is aimed for all who should be convicted. lol Anyway VV is right that we are no one to convict Another's servants.
Dear Nina,
Who are we to say who should feel convicted and who should not? If we think there are some who should feel convicted, but aren't, haven't we judged them? And besides, we're supposed to practice forgiving, whether anyone feels convicted and appologizes, or not.
in Christ,
humorless porcupine.
Vasiliki D.
23-02-2009, 01:09 AM
Rick, yes you are right. It is all about effective communication at the end of the day and yes this thread does offer that opportunity.
mary, who has the right to start a thread or not? This is a good question - only the moderators of course. However, that is not what i was trying to say: it is not the thread that bothered me but the spirit of the thread ... this is different.
I do believe that the thread has potential to be, what Rick has pointed out, correctly, should be. However, for the most part, there are certain adjectives or comments thrown into the mix that do not make it as innocent as it should be.
These are my observations.
(A side comment, I also observe that a Christian can be Christian without practicing false humility ... simply because someone does not publicly request an apology every 2 seconds does not make them an un-apologetic or unrepenting individual. Some people prefer to keep that between themselves and God rather than seek the glory of man by making a point of being humble every second of the day. Sometimes, going that way (over apologetic) can lead to pride in ones soul also)
Like Nina pointed out ... its not just the convicted that should be taking notice but those convicting ... its like the NT, when the prostitute was weeping at the feet of Jesus Christ and they wanted to throw the stones to kill her ... and he wrote in the ground.
I hold this story very very real in my heart ... yes, the prostitute was guilty of a sin or a crime however, those who wanted to convict her of that crime were more guilty than her .. since they had their own sins to consider AND they had the sin of judging her extra ... so, she carried one stone they carried two!
I hold this story very very real in my heart ... yes, the prostitute was guilty of a sin or a crime however, those who wanted to convict her of that crime were more guilty than her .. since they had their own sins to consider AND they had the sin of judging her extra ... so, she carried one stone they carried two!
One of my favorite stories as well. However, if I, as the prostitute, knowing I've done wrong, instead of repenting, if I stand there thinking that those who convict are twice as wrong, then I become three times as wrong.
Vasiliki D.
23-02-2009, 01:19 AM
One of my favorite stories as well. However, if I, as the prostitute, knowing I've done wrong, instead of repenting, if I stand there thinking that those who convict are twice as wrong, then I become three times as wrong.
OR - the prostitute can play word games rather than say right out what she is thinking? I actually do not see the prostitite in the story judging those who were throwing stones at her ... I see her ENTIRE focus on Christ and not caring what the others thought of her .. infact, she sat there repenting to Christ, with her back to her accusers, while they continued to assume and presume and imply things at her ....
So, the prostitute at this point decided to jump on board the PLS train and give up.
Dear Nina,
Who are we to say who should feel convicted and who should not? If we think there are some who should feel convicted, but aren't, haven't we judged them? And besides, we're supposed to practice forgiving, whether anyone feels convicted and appologizes, or not.
in Christ,
humorless porcupine.
See this is why I hate the internet because it is not helpful in communication, believe it or not, although Rick thinks we can solve things by communicating here, virtual space is a tricky one. Let's go back step by step what prompted me to say what I said and which is not what you understood. :) First you brought up the subject of the ones who feel convicted and you told VV that who feels convicted let them be. From what I gathered from the posts above there was a general lack of patience, however I saw that only Antonios (actually the person least needing to) asked forgiveness, so basically he feels convicted as you say. Therefore I said that the problem is not those who feel convicted since they already have been forgiven by God and through their humility they are much higher than all of us. The problem are those like people who did not feel convicted. And I know at least one person who did not (that's I). Therefore 100s of these threads will not solve the problem of pride (maybe they only fuel it even more). And I also said that we all are not entitled to judge Another's servant. That Another is God. And like VV said it is like the prostitute and the masses against her. And God knows really what the heart of everyone has.
I agree with VV for another reason too. Also in the spirit of communication, as Rick said, not always when things get combative (as Rick called them) people start threads. There were certain things which stirred up and this thread started. But if we started a thread every time we felt things were combative then we would have filled monachos with such threads.
Vasiliki D.
23-02-2009, 01:30 AM
See this is why I hate the internet because it is not helpful in communication, believe it or not, although Rick thinks we can solve things by communicating here, virtual space is a tricky one. Let's go back step by step what prompted me to say what I said and which is not what you understood. :) First you brought up the subject of the ones who feel convicted and you told VV that who feels convicted let them be. From what I gathered from the posts above there was a general lack of patience, however I saw that only Antonios (actually the person least needing to) asked forgiveness, so basically he feels convicted as you say. Therefore I said that the problem is not those who feel convicted since they already have been forgiven by God and through their humility they are much higher than all of us. The problem are those like people who did not feel convicted. And I know at least one person who did not (that's I). Therefore 100s of these threads will not solve the problem of pride (maybe they only fuel it even more). And I also said that we all are not entitled to judge Another's servant. That Another is God. And like VV said it is like the prostitute and the masses against her. And God knows really what the heart of everyone has.
I agree with VV for another reason too. Also in the spirit of communication, as Rick said, not always when things get combative (as Rick called them) people start threads. There were certain things which stirred up and this thread started. But if we started a thread every time we felt things were combative then we would have filled monachos with such threads.
and you are right Nina.
Most of the PLS is attributed to me (in other threads) since within the 24 hours prior to this thread .. a situation occured that was PLS directed at ME (it always seems to be ME). No one knows that I spent my afternoon crying after the mis-understanding between me and another poster on Monachos and its not something I need to discuss with anyone either, Christ knows and that is enough. So, do not force me into a situation where I need to display false humility for the sake of satisfying the eyes of those who read my posts .. I owuld much rather come across as an abnoxious fool and know I have repented in my heart and to Christ than seek forgiveness publically but be a cold woman inside me.
So, THIS prostitute is laying it out for the record at all her accusors ... the spirit is not right ...if you have a PLS observation make it in August because right now ... it feels as if there are stones to be thrown.
and you are right Nina.
Most of the PLS is attributed to me (in other threads) since within the 24 hours prior to this thread .. a situation occured that was PLS directed at ME (it always seems to be ME). No one knows that I spent my afternoon crying after the mis-understanding between me and another poster on Monachos and its not something I need to discuss with anyone either, Christ knows and that is enough. So, do not force me into a situation where I need to display false humility for the sake of satisfying the eyes of those who read my posts .. I owuld much rather come across as an abnoxious fool and know I have repented in my heart and to Christ than seek forgiveness publically but be a cold woman inside me.
So, THIS prostitute is laying it out for the record at all her accusors ... the spirit is not right ...if you have a PLS observation make it in August because right now ... it feels as if there are stones to be thrown.
VV mou! Do not worry! You and that other poster are extremely dear to me! It will come time God will turn all things for the best. I promise you this because I have seen it in both of your hearts.
Love in Christ, much!
Vasiliki D.
23-02-2009, 02:12 AM
VV mou! Do not worry! You and that other poster are extremely dear to me! It will come time God will turn all things for the best. I promise you this because I have seen it in both of your hearts.
Love in Christ, much!
but I DO worry Nina, I worry a lot. It is not in my nature not to worry.
Since this happened the other day I have felt sick in my stomach that I was the reason that someone has left Monachos ... and I am more sad that it happened than anyone else who has posted since. I never intended to annoy that particular individual, or anyone else, and none of my posts have ever had malice or intended arrogance behind them (preachy). For the most part, I have always thought I was having a conversation .. perhaps my stupidity comes through in this but I had no idea that I am disliked by some for it.
So, threads like this only add salt to the wound and I dont appreciate the timing of it since it further perpetuates the situation by implying a good that is actually not. To be honest, I dont BELIEVE for one minute that hermans intent was bad.
However, it feels like THIS year's PLS is the devil working through me to "test" you all out ... since the "edgy" posts are mine, the emotional posts are mine ... and the lengthy posts - again - have been mine. I am not demonic and for having been the centre of this years scandal .. I honestly apologise ... but can this thread die in the water since it passes judgement.
Herman Blaydoe
23-02-2009, 02:33 AM
mary, who has the right to start a thread or not? This is a good question - only the moderators of course.
No. Wrong. Any registered member can start a thread. Moderators merely redirect threads started in an inappropriate forum to a more appropriate one or call to a close a thread that is not within the purview of Monachos.
However, that is not what i was trying to say: it is not the thread that bothered me but the spirit of the thread ... this is different.
Sorry a simply observation has struck such a delicate nerve but "welcome to the Internet."
I do believe that the thread has potential to be, what Rick has pointed out, correctly, should be. However, for the most part, there are certain adjectives or comments thrown into the mix that do not make it as innocent as it should be.
You have made that apparent, this thread does not make you comfortable. Not sure why that should be, but I think this is a judgement on your part. Perhaps you need a break.
These are my observations.
And I made my observations, you just didn't happen to approve.
I do believe this thread has satisfied every reader's FDA recommended dose of irony.
Herman the Pooh
VV do not worry! Herman started this thread for me and not for you! Have peace my dear VV in Christ!
OR - the prostitute can play word games rather than say right out what she is thinking? I actually do not see the prostitite in the story judging those who were throwing stones at her ... I see her ENTIRE focus on Christ and not caring what the others thought of her .. infact, she sat there repenting to Christ, with her back to her accusers, while they continued to assume and presume and imply things at her ....
So, the prostitute at this point decided to jump on board the PLS train and give up.
This is so funny! A Classic example of how a simple thought gets confused.
The prostitute in the story was forgiven, because of the sole reason that her entire focus was on Christ, not caring what others thought of her. It was entirely between her and Christ, she knew she'd done wrong and she stood before him, hiding nothing. She was forgiven.
Also, Christ didn't judge those who wanted to stone her. In fact, He gave them permission to stone her, as long as they were certain they hadn't sinned, they could. So... essentially, they judged themselves. And they left.
So, when I said what I said, I simply meant, IF the prostitute had turned around at that point, with a triumphant look - because, everyone knows that everyone sins... then, she would've lost her forgiveness. But she didn't care that she was being accused by other sinners. She knew they were right, and didn't defend herself.
That's all I meant. Whether we are accused by those who hate us, or rebuked by those who love us, it's an opportunity to see ourselves as we truly are, and repent. So, whether a thread has the right 'spirit' or not, is really of no consequence to us. You don't have to let the negative spirits (if there are any), touch you.
In Christ,
mary.
Herman Blaydoe
23-02-2009, 04:14 AM
The prostitute in the story was forgiven, because of the sole reason that her entire focus was on Christ, not caring what others thought of her. It was entirely between her and Christ, she knew she'd done wrong and she stood before him, hiding nothing. She was forgiven.
Also, Christ didn't judge those who wanted to stone her. In fact, He gave them permission to stone her, as long as they were certain they hadn't sinned, they could. So... essentially, they judged themselves. And they left.
So, when I said what I said, I simply meant, IF the prostitute had turned around at that point, with a triumphant look - because, everyone knows that everyone sins... then, she would've lost her forgiveness. But she didn't care that she was being accused by other sinners. She knew they were right, and didn't defend herself.
That's all I meant. Whether we are accused by those who hate us, or rebuked by those who love us, it's an opportunity to see ourselves as we truly are, and repent. So, whether a thread has the right 'spirit' or not, is really of no consequence to us. You don't have to let the negative spirits (if there are any), touch you.
In Christ,
mary.
The adulterous woman was NOT a prostitute. She was technically an adulterer. I hope people here realize that there is at least a semantic difference?
Oh and there are those who would say that St. Mary of Egypt was also not technically a prostitute since she did not accept money for what she did. Words have meanings. We engineers get "edgy" when the wrong technical terms get bandied about. Maybe my own PLS showing through....
Herman the pedantic Pooh
Matthew
23-02-2009, 04:15 AM
Perhaps I am only talking to myself...
Thank you, Herman, for starting this thread.
I have my own Lenten anxieties. I keep the Pascha as my goal, and that helps to sustain me. The Sunday of Forgiveness is so touching, and also helps immensely.
But thank you for simply pointing out that there is a mood surrounding the entrance into Lent. Acknowledging that is very helpful.
I do believe this thread has satisfied every reader's FDA recommended dose of irony.
Dear Herman, please republish your old signature for the benefit of some of the newer members.
Dear ladies
May I, as a resident "grumpy old woman" here, offer a suggestion? Online communication can indeed be fraught, as words on a computer screen are a poor substitute for face-to-face communication. Smileys are useful, but not available in all areas of this forum. The best antidote to misunderstandings is to post in as dispassionate a way as one can. It's not easy, believe me. But with effort, it can be done. It also has the advantage that, if done correctly, there's no stick for someone else to beat you over the head with. Just some sisterly advice. :)
Herman Blaydoe
23-02-2009, 04:56 AM
Dear Herman, please republish your old signature for the benefit of some of the newer members.)
Since you asked sooo nicely...
When reading ANYTHING by that obstreperous and curmudgeonly Herman person, the following disclaimer should be kept in mind:
The ideas expressed here may or may not reflect the opinion of the poster. Text may contain material some readers may find objectionable, spiritual guidance is advised. The drinking of beverages while reading these posts is strongly discouraged; not responsible for damage, discomfort, or staining caused by spit-takes or "nosers." Not responsible for direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages resulting from any defect, use of satire, or failure to suit your particular sense of humor (or lack thereof). Some shifting of context may have occurred during shipment. For external use only. Void where prohibited. Not legal in all spiritual states. Consult a licensed and reputable spiritual advisor before applying. For recreational use only. May exceed the maximum recommended daily dose of irony. If a rash, redness, irritation, or swelling develops, discontinue use. If condition persists, consult your spiritual physician. This notice applies to all posts by this poster whether or not it is included in the post and supercedes all previous disclaimers.
IOW, please do not try and take me any more seriously than I take myself.
And let's not start another round of putting disclaimers on every post, Fr. Dcn will not be pleased.
Herman the disclaimered Pooh
When we reach your maturity in many aspects maybe we will be as wise as you all. Or maybe we will just continue to be kids always. Well nothing wrong with being a child (or immature) either from what is said in the Bible. But I agree that self righteous attitudes do not help someone who is ill spiritually at the moment. I know many might miss preaching but what can we do. All can't be priests. Can they?
Just give the girl (VV) a break she is opening her heart to all and let her carry her burden, if no one can help her hold her burden. Just please.
Just give the girl (VV) a break she is opening her heart to all and let her carry her burden, if no one can help her hold her burden. Just please.
My dear Nina, being a "grumpy old woman" doesn't mean one is inherently nasty or self-righteous at all times. What it means is that one is still obliged to be proper and compassionate if at all possible, but, at certain times, can, and should, speak the unvarnished truth. Nobody is pointing the finger at Vasiliki, you, or any of the other girls. Certainly not me!.
When, years ago, I first read Herman's "disclaimer", I laughed myself silly at its wit and wisdom. Far from being irreverent, I found it to be a most useful and healthy antidote to excesssive self-righteousness. I am grateful to Herman for making it available again.
Olga as you may see I have said "you all". I did not single someone out.
When we reach your maturity in many aspects maybe we will be as wise as you all.
M.C. Steenberg
23-02-2009, 09:03 AM
I'm very grateful for the sentiment that started this thread, which is something from which all can learn. And I think the recent exchange about it, is case-in-point.
Let us learn, and move along.
INXC, Dcn Matthew
Effie Ganatsios
23-02-2009, 09:52 AM
Having been through quite a few Orthodox Lents, I have observed an interesting phenomenon and it has been commented on by others, so I don't think I am totally out on a limb here. Every year, in the weeks leading up to Lent, I have noticed that postings to various Orthodox fora become more heated and intense. Emotions seem to run a little higher in this time. I mean some people have strong emotions year-round and there are certainly heated discussions that go on at other times, but it really seems that they get a little more frequent around this time of year.
Reading the rather voluminous postings here of late, for example, bears this out I think. Thoughts seem a little "edgier" than normal. We find it much easier to take offense. We get a little too serious, at least for my taste and a sense of humor seems lacking. I don't pretend to know why, perhaps the evil one chooses this time for extra effort against us.
I mention this so that people might be aware that this is happening, and that perhaps a little extra consideration and even prayer might be appropriate before hitting the "enter" key or clicking on the "post" button. Perhaps a "In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" before composing a response to a particularly irritating post, and a "Let it be blessed" just before sending.
Perhaps I am only talking to myself, perhaps I am the only one who needs to be reminded. If so, please forgive and humor an old man with much on his mind.
Otherwise, what to the better minds than mine think? Might there be such a thing as PLS, or am I simply full of BS?
Herman the PLSing Pooh
Herman, come and visit us..........................
Here in North Greece there is absolutely no pre Lental stress. Why? Everyone is so busy having a good time - we have tickets to 2 Carnival theatre plays this week - that whatever stress we might have vanishes in this fun. There are games for the children, there are dance groups from our city but also from many other Greek cities and even some from other countries that give performances every night in the main town square, there are formal dances for those who can afford the tickets, although just about every cultural group or any other type of organized group makes sure that the prices are affordable. Most of the dances are masquerade dances but you can dress just as you like..
I've probably left out a lot of things but who has time for any kind of stress at all.
Effie
This is our way of preparing ourselves for the 40 day Lent fast and the period in which we examine ourselves and try to cleanse our bodies and minds of all the wrong things we have loaded them with.
Effie Ganatsios
23-02-2009, 09:59 AM
A little more seriously now - although everything I wrote in my previous message is true - I have a sign next to my computer that helps me control my words.
Speak Truth Today
Speak Wisdom Today
Speak Kindness Today
Speak Gentleness Today
These 4 sentences take up a whole page, which I have laminated. The letters are so big that it is difficult not to ignore this advice and at least try to do what it says. I say this because one of the mysteries of life is that we no longer see something even though it might be right in front of our noses, once our minds have become used to seeing it.
Effie
Effie Ganatsios
23-02-2009, 10:19 AM
but I DO worry Nina, I worry a lot. It is not in my nature not to worry.
Since this happened the other day I have felt sick in my stomach that I was the reason that someone has left Monachos ... and I am more sad that it happened than anyone else who has posted since. I never intended to annoy that particular individual, or anyone else, and none of my posts have ever had malice or intended arrogance behind them (preachy). For the most part, I have always thought I was having a conversation .. perhaps my stupidity comes through in this but I had no idea that I am disliked by some for it.
So, threads like this only add salt to the wound and I dont appreciate the timing of it since it further perpetuates the situation by implying a good that is actually not. To be honest, I dont BELIEVE for one minute that hermans intent was bad.
However, it feels like THIS year's PLS is the devil working through me to "test" you all out ... since the "edgy" posts are mine, the emotional posts are mine ... and the lengthy posts - again - have been mine. I am not demonic and for having been the centre of this years scandal .. I honestly apologise ... but can this thread die in the water since it passes judgement.
Vasiliki, this happened to me when I first started posting here again.
Time quietened my feelings of guilt and made me see that sometimes our words will be misinterpreted no matter what we do. I don't read all the threads so have no idea of your own situation but decided to tell you about my own experience on this forum in the past.
We need a little slack here. I am not always careful in how I express my thoughts and have often given offence when none was intended. But, surely we do not need to examine and re-examine every sentence we write. If there is respect and love between us as there is in every family, then, in my opinion, a personal message between the person who is offended and the one who offended her or him is much better and usually leads to a better understanding between us.
We are all entitled to our different opinions on the issues we discuss here. A different opinion does not mean that you are personally attacking or judging the person who does not agree with you.
I feel that sometimes we are too sensitive - I now I am - and provide our own interpretation of what we are reading. We also sometimes read something personal into a general remark. But this is our problem and one we need to think about seriously. Our minds trick us and hide things from us. Our egos are especially good at doing this. And I also know that when this happens evil is happy - or to make it plainer, the evil one is happy.
Why disagreements occur frequently just before Lent, as some have told us, I don't know. Perhaps because the evil one knows that we are entering a period of the year in which our total focus is on God and our relationship to Him.
Effie
From St. Ambrose (The Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers: Second Series Vol. X; Eerdmans pg. 334):
"The likeness of Your Church, O Lord, is that woman who went behind and touched the hem of Your garment, saying within herself: 'If I do but touch His garment I shall be whole' (Mt. 9:21). So the Church confesses her wounds, but desires to be healed."
Ha ha ha Herman sent me a comment to my last post saying that: "You are aware of course that pride is a sin..." I do not want to prove you wrong dear Herman since I am sinful, and prideful however in this case you are not exactly right. This is not exactly the case which sends me to confession.
Herman, I said: 'Proud to be Orthodox' and not 'Proud to be Nina'. Even the Apostle said he is proud in the same context.
Maybe this Bible passage pertains so much here in this case and thread:
Galatians 6
Doing Good to All
1Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted. 2Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. 3If anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself. 4Each one should test his own actions. Then he can take pride in himself, without comparing himself to somebody else, 5for each one should carry his own load. 6Anyone who receives instruction in the word must share all good things with his instructor.
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that naturea]" class="footnote">[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=55&chapter=6&version=31#fen-NIV-29181a)]will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. 10Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.
Not Circumcision but a New Creation
11See what large letters I use as I write to you with my own hand! 12Those who want to make a good impression outwardly are trying to compel you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ. 13Not even those who are circumcised obey the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your flesh. 14May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through whichb]" class="footnote">[b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=55&chapter=6&version=31#fen-NIV-29187b)] the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. 15Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation. 16Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule, even to the Israel of God.
17Finally, let no one cause me trouble, for I bear on my body the marks of Jesus.
18The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit, brothers. Amen.
The proud in Christ's Cross and the proud Orthodox,
nina
Antonios
24-02-2009, 12:23 AM
Why disagreements occur frequently just before Lent, as some have told us, I don't know. Perhaps because the evil one knows that we are entering a period of the year in which our total focus is on God and our relationship to Him.
Effie
The evil one knows that and attacks us because he feeds off our own pride. It is up to us to listen, stand up, and face him with the Power of the Name and allow Christ to empower us while His Grace transfigures us. The devil attacks the most now because as Effie mentioned, in a few short days the Church will once again arise to defeat the devil and proclaim again and for all eternity: "Christ is Risen! Indeed, He is Risen!"
Pray for me my friends. Let us pray for one another.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.1.5 Copyright © 2012 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.