Kiev Caves Lavra

[Paul Cowan]

This from the OCA site


On the second Sunday of Great Lent, we commemorate all the Holy Fathers whose relics lie in the Near and Far Caves of the Kiev Caves Lavra.


Where is this place? Are they truly caves dug out or natural formations? I imagine caves being rather small, how did they build a church in them and have so many monks in them? I have seen underground caverns (http://www.naturalbridgecaverns.com/)here in Texas, is this how they were as well?

I have read of elders digging themselves a cave in the mountain side. That is an impressive feat for even the steepest grade hills, let alone a gentle sloping hillside. How deep were their caves? How tall? Were they like mining tunnels?

I am very curious as you can see about the cave dwellers. Thank you

Paul

[Kusanagi]

St Anthony resided in a cave when he founded the monastery and other 30 saints all resided in caves nearby, eventually when the brotherhood grew more and more, cells were built. All relics of the saints are kept underground like in a network cave system. It's found on youtube how Kiev caves Lavra looks like as you cannot see much caves there anymore.

[Michael Stickles]

OrthodoxWiki has an article about the Lavra (http://orthodoxwiki.org/Monastery_of_the_Kiev_Caves), which has a link to the Lavra's own website. It has plenty of photos, but photos of the caves themselves were kinda scarce (I didn't find any, but I might have missed something). There are a few notes about the caves themselves in the NationMaster articles on the monastery (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Kiev-Caves-Monastery) and on the near caves (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Near-Caves).

Although I struck out on pictures, I did find a YouTube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuVlGXMuDVo) of someone's visit to the caves.

Michael

[Father David Moser]

I am very curious as you can see about the cave dwellers.

Perhaps this won't answer all your questions, but let me share with you my son-in-law's experience at the Pochaev Monastery:

We promised to meet again, and Ludmila took me to St. Job’s cell beneath Holy Dormition Cathedral. Saint Job prayed and struggled as a recluse for years in this tiny natural cave. A chapel has been built around the cave, and his relics repose outside of the cell. Ludmila took me to the cave, which had a long line of people waiting to enter it, but she exclaimed, “This is an American Orthodox pilgrim! Let him go first!” All the other pilgrims nodded, and assented. A child called out, “What is your name?” in English. I looked at the opening to the cave, which is about the size of two toasters, and I immediately told Ludmila, “I won’t fit in there! I won’t go!”
“Pray to the Bogoroditsa and anything is possible,” called out a woman from among the lined-up pilgrims.
“Yes, but I am not small,” I protested.
“I will go first,” said Luda, who slid through the cave entrance with no problem.
“Easy for you to say,” I thought. Although I had lost some weight, I was still kind of thick around the middle. I was also 6’9” in height. She came back out and told me how wonderful it was to be able to venerate the icon of St. Job and stand there just like he had... go, we’ll help you...
I had visions of going down in Church history as the pilgrim who got stuck and required a fire crew to remove him, but Ludmila was still pushing me on — “the icon of your patron saint is around the corner, doubting Thomas. He didn’t think it was truly the Lord until he could touch His side. Now, you don’t have to doubt.”
I began to shimmy forward through the cave entrance, head first. I got my head all the way in to find a priest who took my hand and began pulling me in. “Pray to the Bogoroditsa!” he said cheerfully.
“Presviataia Bogoroditsa, spasi nas!” I exclaimed and made it another few centimeters.
“Why don’t you say it in English?” asked Olga, a 10-year-old girl who was also in the cave. I hadn’t known she was in there. Oh, dear, I thought. I’m going to get myself stuck, and these two are going to starve to death as a result!
“Most Holy Theotokos, save us!”
With a little more dragging, I did eventually get into the awkward cave, and I said to the priest, “St. Job wasn’t a tall man, was he?” I found the icon, and said a prayer to St. Job that I’m sure he’d heard many times before, “St. Job, intercede before God for me, and get me out of this cave in one piece!”
Well, I figured, if I don’t get out of the cave, I can stay here and fast for 40 days. School won’t start for a while...
With the priest and Olga pushing on me, and Ludmila and another woman I’d never met pulling on me, I did pop out of the cave, feeling reborn in a spiritual and literal sense, having re-enacted my own birth as an adult. A doubter no more!


Since this time my daughter met and married this wonderfully creative young man and I am proud to have him as part of my family.

Fr David Moser

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

This from the OCA site



Where is this place? Are they truly caves dug out or natural formations? I imagine caves being rather small, how did they build a church in them and have so many monks in them? I have seen underground caverns (http://www.naturalbridgecaverns.com/)here in Texas, is this how they were as well?

I have read of elders digging themselves a cave in the mountain side. That is an impressive feat for even the steepest grade hills, let alone a gentle sloping hillside. How deep were their caves? How tall? Were they like mining tunnels?

I am very curious as you can see about the cave dwellers. Thank you

Paul

The relics are actually full bodies in coffin sized boxes along the sides of the passage ways leading down to the chapel. Each relic/saint has his name written on the coffin sized reliquary. Each coffin/reliquary is covered with glass on top so that veneration is possible.

I can tell you one thing- there is nothing on earth like being at Liturgy with the full body of a saint literally beside yours.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Nina]

Wow. Thank you dear Fathers for the description since also I have wondered a lot about the Kiev caves.

Paul I have seen from a distance the caves in Meteora and it is just amazing how the hermits went there and live there. There are some ladders from ropes or just ropes through which I was told the hermits receive food, or a visitor. But it was so difficult to access and I do not know who are the brave souls who go there to meet the hermits.

Also once on the way from Athens to Thessaloniki we stopped at a church and sacred place in general (sorry no recollection of the name and also no photos) but we had to go through this tunnel to go to the cave where there was the holy water and the miracle performed I think. It was so scary because I never crawled in such tight space and kept thinking about the cave-dwellers.

[Kusanagi]

It seems they took off the English page to the Lavra, i took all the lives of the saints they did have online, if you want it.
I was searching for them because there was a saint canonised there as recent as 2005/6. Another saint of the Caves that is.
Forgot the name it was mentioned in Romanian newspaper.

[Paul Cowan]

Perhaps this won't answer all your questions, but let me share with you my son-in-law's experience at the Pochaev Monastery:


Since this time my daughter met and married this wonderfully creative young man and I am proud to have him as part of my family.

Fr David Moser

Thank you Fr. David,

A great first hand account. 6'9" huh? I am not quite that tall, but I would much more prayers and little people pusing and pulling me in and out. I am not too chlostrphobic as long as I know I can get out of a tight spot, but to live in that tight spot without being able to move around much for years on end. Lord have mercy.

[Robin Elizabeth]

This from the OCA site



Where is this place? Are they truly caves dug out or natural formations? I imagine caves being rather small, how did they build a church in them and have so many monks in them? I have seen underground caverns (http://www.naturalbridgecaverns.com/)here in Texas, is this how they were as well?

I have read of elders digging themselves a cave in the mountain side. That is an impressive feat for even the steepest grade hills, let alone a gentle sloping hillside. How deep were their caves? How tall? Were they like mining tunnels?

I am very curious as you can see about the cave dwellers. Thank you

Paul

You might take a look at the following web sites. I'm not sure if this is exactly what you were looking for but if you scroll down towards the bottom of each page they do give a few pictures you might be interested in.

http://serg-klymenko.narod.ru/Other_World/Ukraine.Chernigiv.htm

http://www.wumag.kiev.ua/index2.php?param=pgs20064/74

[Paul Cowan]

You might take a look at the following web sites. I'm not sure if this is exactly what you were looking for but if you scroll down towards the bottom of each page they do give a few pictures you might be interested in.

http://serg-klymenko.narod.ru/Other_World/Ukraine.Chernigiv.htm

http://www.wumag.kiev.ua/index2.php?param=pgs20064/74

These are great Robin,
Here is an English excerpt from the first site you offered.


The mysteries of monastery caves.
The first artificial caves appeared in Chernigiv (Chernigov) in the 11-th century. They were founded by famous Old Rus religious man Anthony who had been founder of the Kiev-Pechersky monastery (Lavra).

His monastery in Chernigiv consisted of churches, cells and burial places. All of them were situated in the slopes of the Boldin Hills. St. Illya's church was built near the entry to the cave monastery in the 12-th century.

Nowadays it is the united underground complex the length of which is about 350 meters. There are three churches and a few other premises and corridors. Most of them were formed in the 18-th and the 19-th centuries but there are some sections of the caves where ancient architecture is preserved. First of all it is a large burial temple which appeared before Mongolian period. It was discovered in 1987, cleared away and investigated by Chernigiv archaeologists. This room is more than 300 cubic meters. Here were found some rich archaeological materials and traces of the ancient burial rite.

There are many legends about Chernigiv caves. They say that long underground passages connected Chernigiv with Kyiv (Kiev) and Lubich (Lubech), that Anthony caves were connected with the Eletsky monastery and the Val.
Caves were being built in Chernigiv for centuries. Many of them were ruined and forgot.

But sometimes caving-in take place in Chernigiv. One of such episodes happened between the Eletsky monastery and the Trinity monastery in 1853. Three men ventured to penetrate into the pit and saw the cave. But it was pity they did not measure the underground premises. The pictures were not made also. The entrance to the cave was covered up with earth.
Filling-in appeared in some places on the territory of the Val at the beginning of the 20-th century. After they had been investigated it became clear that all of them were made later than Anthony caves.

So called the “New caves” which were digged out by monk Alypy in 1918 are situated in the slope of the Boldin Hills not far from the Trinity monastery. The underground premises were decorated by Ukrainian folk ornaments. After the erection of that complex had been finished it was sanctified by bishop Pahomy. Some time later the New caves were deserted and partially ruined. Most of the ornaments disappeared.

Nobody knows how many caves there are on the territory of the Chernigiv region. But we are firmly convinced of the fact that there are many of them. The most famous caves are known in Lubich, if we set aside Chernigiv caves. It is explained by the information that father of Russian monkhood saint Anthony was born in this Old Rus town and spent there his youth.
No less known are caves of Spaso-Preobrazensky monastery in Novgorod-Siversky (Novgorod-Seversky).

The cave small and secluded convent of Ryhlovsry Svyato-Nicholaevsky monastery in Korop vicinity was widely known at the end of the 19-th century. Now it is neglected.
Many legends about the local caves exist in Sedniv (Sednev). One deserted cave was found accidentally near this settlement.
An underground corridor the length of which is about 100 meters is under former landlord Galagan's estate in Sribna (Srebnaya) vicinity.
The similar cave under landowner's house in the village Petrushin of Chernigiv vicinity was mentioned in documents in 1623.
20 years ago a half-ruined cave was found in Sosnitsa.

The vast underground premises strengthened with mason are known under village Osich of Bahmach vicinity. They say there is a sarcophagus in one of the underground premises of that complex.
A very interesting legend is connately with the caves in the village Irzavets of Ichnya vicinity. They are situated under the ruined old cossack church. The local people are sure that the famous Zaporozhkaya Virgin icon is hidden there. The icon was delivered to that village by cossack after the Sich (Sech) had been liquidated.

The tradition of the cave building in Chernigiv land exists for eight centuries. We must remember that caves are monuments of history and culture that's why they required our protection.