Miniature prayer ropes / 'Jesus Prayer' ring

[Stuart Dunn]

Saw these rings advertised recently...wondering what people thought about them in a sense of tradition and such.

[Matthew Namee]

Saw these rings advertised recently...wondering what people thought about them in a sense of tradition and such.
I see no objection, as long as it's treated with respect. (I have one myself.)

[Stuart Dunn]

That's how I feel about it, and how I feel about my rosary ring. Just wasn't sure if it was viewed as too modern.

[Albion]

Saw these rings advertised recently...wondering what people thought about them in a sense of tradition and such.

The Greek Orthodox Archdiocese in America is selling them on its website, if that tells you anything:

http://www.orthodoxmarketplace.com/jesus-prayer-ring-greek-text-pr-19209.html

Frankly, I find the idea a bit tacky, but then I have been using a komvoschinion/chotki for years and so am probably inclined to feel that way about any alternative, except perhaps the version worn around the wrist.

[Matthew Namee]

http://www.orthodoxmarketplace.com/jesus-prayer-ring-greek-text-pr-19209.html
I didn't know it was made in Greek. I've only seen it in Slavonic.

[Paul Cowan]

I didn't know it was made in Greek. I've only seen it in Slavonic.

Scrolling down the page, it is also in English.

[Stuart Dunn]

The Greek Orthodox Archdiocese in America is selling them on its website, if that tells you anything:

http://www.orthodoxmarketplace.com/jesus-prayer-ring-greek-text-pr-19209.html

Frankly, I find the idea a bit tacky, but then I have been using a komvoschinion/chotki for years and so am probably inclined to feel that way about any alternative, except perhaps the version worn around the wrist.

I actually own both a wrist chotki and a 50 knot traditional one. The traditional one reminds me too much of a rosary and I feel tempted to count which is not the purpose unless specifically advised to do so. The wrist one reminds me I should be in a state of constant prayer.

[Albion]

I actually own both a wrist chotki and a 50 knot traditional one ... The wrist one reminds me I should be in a state of constant prayer.

Interesting. I've only ever seen 100 knotters.

And I am inspired by your reason for using the wrist one, and I think I shall get one. I used to wear the full one around my neck for similar reasons, and to have it handy, but found the wool to be uncomfortable, particularly in the hot weather.

[Michael Astley]

Interesting. I've only ever seen 100 knotters.

I've seen them available with 33 knots, 50 knots, 100, 300, and 500 knots. Then there's the lestovka (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/%D0%9F%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D 1%8F_%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BA%D0 %B0.jpg), if you prefer, which is a prayer ladder rather than rope. I think I'd be inclined to use that rather than a ring if i struggled with the chotki but I suppose there's nothing wrong with the use of the ring.

In Christ,
Michael

[Stuart Dunn]

Interesting. I've only ever seen 100 knotters.

And I am inspired by your reason for using the wrist one, and I think I shall get one. I used to wear the full one around my neck for similar reasons, and to have it handy, but found the wool to be uncomfortable, particularly in the hot weather.

Make sure it's big enough...mine is a little tight on my wrist and leaves a nice indentation when i take it off for showers.

[Kseniya M.]

Then there's the lestovka (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/%D0%9F%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D 1%8F_%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BA%D0 %B0.jpg), if you prefer, which is a prayer ladder rather than rope.

I know this is off-topic, and I hope I don't get thwapped by a moderator for it, but how does one use a lestovka? I've seen them before and been mystified by them.

-Kseniya

[Michael Astley]

I know this is off-topic, and I hope I don't get thwapped by a moderator for it, but how does one use a lestovka? I've seen them before and been mystified by them.

-Kseniya

I think that our moderators have given up thwapping the faithful as a discipline during Great Lent so you should be ok. ;-)

My understanding is that the lestovka was the Russian equivalent to the Greek chotki, as part of the personal piety of Russian monastics (and laity?), and that some time after the 17th-century liturgical reforms, popular piety began to embrace the Greek chotki to the point that today, use of the lestovka is viewed very much as an Old Ritualist practice, (as our Old Rite brothers and sistsers were having none of this Greek business).

I think that there is some detail about its use in the Old Rite prayer book from the Church of the Nativity. I can check and post later, if you'd like.

In Christ,
Michael

[Christopher Grant]

I would like to point out that the larger prayer ropes can also be wound around the wrist. I have a 100 knot prayer rope that I try to have with me as a constant aid to prayer. The only downside is that the tassel can get in the way and be annoying. On the other hand, each time it irritates, it reminds you that you should be praying, so it's a mixed bag. When it absolutely can't get in the way, it quickly slips into a pocket. If you're someone like me who tends to lose the wrist ropes, the longer ropes also seem to be less prone to falling off.

[Effie Ganatsios]

I use the wrist prayer rope when I am travelling. I find that I can use it discreetly.

I bought it from a monastery.

Effie

[Paul Cowan]

Any suggestions for those of us with big hands and wrists? I can't fit the wrist rope over my hand and the 100 rope is too loose since I can't twist it to fit snug. Prayer rings are too small for my fingers. Sorry, we Texans are bigger than most Yanks.

[D. W. Dickens]

Indeed, what about us big folks? :-)

I had to cannibalize some home jewelry to make my baptismal cross chain long enough to wear without choking me. And my wrists are more problematic. I also feel a bit uneasy about people at work seeing me walk around with a thick black wool rope around my wrist. It seems overtly pious in an inappropriate way.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Does one buy a prayer rope for oneself? Or is it really better to wait on such things as gifts from others? (One person in my parish actually suggested that buying your own icons was not as good as waiting for them to find you, as it were.)

[Peter S.]

I think you get more stressed mentally using a ring, because you get "finnished" too fast with a "round". If it is in wool it is better because it makes little sound. A rope around your wrist is big enough for me but I only have a 100knot in my pocket, (for no use...). (I hope you dont use the ring when it is on your finger because the skin is thinner there.) : )

Peter

[Michael Astley]

I got a 100-knot woollen one initially but it frayed terribly at the end and it was very dry and absorbed moisture from my skin. Because of my eczema, my wrist became very dry and irritated. In cold weather, when my eczeman gets quite bad, my skin in some areas can crack and the wool worsened this. I eventually replaced it with one of the "floss" ones from here (http://www.athenshop.com/) and have had it now for nearly a year without problem. Its use has been a great aid to me. I have a small fabric pouch which has an icon of the Mother of God woven into it. I think it was originally intended as a rosary case but it works fine for keeping my chotki in my bag. When I'm travelling or at home, I often wear it on my wrist where it is readily accessible if I have cause to use it.

In my experience of both of the ones that I have had, they have come with the knots packed very tightly together. I have stretched mine out as far it will go, and it wraps around my wrist four times. For those of larger proportions, I should imagine that solution is to stretch the knots apart only a little to begin with, and wrap it around the wrist fewer times, gently stretching it a little further if necessary.

In Christ,
Michael

[Peter S.]

And if it is without a rubber band it is better, because then it is no risk for getting focused with the "stretch-thing".

[Matthew]

Any suggestions for those of us with big hands and wrists? I can't fit the wrist rope over my hand and the 100 rope is too loose since I can't twist it to fit snug. Prayer rings are too small for my fingers. Sorry, we Texans are bigger than most Yanks.

I make a habit of putting a 33-knot prayer rope in my left pocket. It's always there, and it doesn't look odd if I stick my hand in my pocket, even during a conversation with a co-worker; I can say the Jesus prayer privately while in public.

My spiritual father suggested against wearing a prayer rope on the wrist as potentially being an ostentatious display, but I think he doesn't feel very strongly about it either way.

[Albion]

My understanding is that the lestovka was the Russian equivalent to the Greek chotki...

Just a small point on terminology: As far as I know, chotki is the Russian word for what the Greek's call a konvoschinion (sp?).

[Stuart Dunn]

I make a habit of putting a 33-knot prayer rope in my left pocket. It's always there, and it doesn't look odd if I stick my hand in my pocket, even during a conversation with a co-worker; I can say the Jesus prayer privately while in public.

My spiritual father suggested against wearing a prayer rope on the wrist as potentially being an ostentatious display, but I think he doesn't feel very strongly about it either way.

While it is not the intention of a prayer rope at all, if worn around the wrist, it is definitely a conversation starter which can be used for evangelization. "What's that on your wrist?" "What's it for?" It can definitely be used to introduce the idea to others of praying unceasingly. As for ostentatious, I agree it could be viewed as that but I also can see how it is quite the opposite. It is black wool, anything but flashy. I think, just me speaking, that the real pitfall would be wearing it so frequently you just forget it's there and the purpose it serves.

[Effie Ganatsios]

Just a small point on terminology: As far as I know, chotki is the Russian word for what the Greek's call a konvoschinion (sp?).

That's right, Albion.

The greek word is komboschinion : kombo/kombos = knot and schinion/schini = rope/cord.

Effie

[Matthew]

While it is not the intention of a prayer rope at all, if worn around the wrist, it is definitely a conversation starter which can be used for evangelization. "What's that on your wrist?" "What's it for?" It can definitely be used to introduce the idea to others of praying unceasingly. As for ostentatious, I agree it could be viewed as that but I also can see how it is quite the opposite. It is black wool, anything but flashy. I think, just me speaking, that the real pitfall would be wearing it so frequently you just forget it's there and the purpose it serves.

Thank you for that. That's a refreshing outlook, and I would tend to agree with you, with all that you say about wearing the prayer rope on one's wrist. Very interesting.

If anything, I'm guilty of hiding the prayer rope in my pocket and forget that it's there!

[Kseniya M.]

Thank you for that. That's a refreshing outlook, and I would tend to agree with you, with all that you say about wearing the prayer rope on one's wrist. Very interesting.

If anything, I'm guilty of hiding the prayer rope in my pocket and forget that it's there!

I've always been told I would need a blessing from my spiritual father to wear a chotki on my wrist. Since I don't have a spiritual father, all I can do is hide mine in my pocket (where, like you, I tend to forget about it).

-Kseniya

[Nina]

I've always been told I would need a blessing from my spiritual father to wear a chotki on my wrist. Since I don't have a spiritual father, all I can do is hide mine in my pocket (where, like you, I tend to forget about it).

-Kseniya

Hmmm I have never heard this. However I do not wear mine all the time. Only at moments when I need to remember where it is. Such as the case for long car trips so it is always there and I do not have to think in which pocket, or bag I placed it. How vain I aaaaam!!!! I have bought different ones with little bead in different colors to match my outfits lol So I need actually blessing for each one. Also I have a red one from the SF of my mom. He gave it to her when she got ill with cancer and my mom left it in her purse after she departed and I claimed it along with her Bible and a couple of other religious items from her purse. That is a precious one for me and I pray with it sometime but I want to keep it since I love the SF of my parents and since it was the last komboskini my mom owned here. :)

PS I do not wear my komboskini all the time because I forget and get water on it (doing dishes, shower, or swim) and I have ruined some that way and I do not like to ruin komboskinia this way but by prayer (which has never happened). There is so much work and prayer going in to preparation of the prayer ropes and I feel a total irresponsible when water gets on it for no good reason other than forgetfulness.

[Kseniya M.]

Hmmm I have never heard this. However I do not wear mine all the time.

I think maybe this is a difference between the Greek and Russian traditions, but I have very little experience or knowledge of Greeks and how they do things. I don't know how well this is on topic either, but perhaps someone with more experience could comment.

-Kseniya

[Mary Emily Hamilton]

Long time no post, I know....

Wanted to tell you that while I was spending an idyllic summer and fall in Greece a very long time ago, I was blessed to be taught how to tie komboschinia. It became a joyful duty to tie one for various friends...I even tied one for a very close friend who had invited me to be part of the choir at her wedding: I tied a white one and used very small hand-made glass beads to mark the equal divisions between the knots.

The bride carried the komboschinion in her right hand, with her bridal bouquet, and handed the bouquet and the komboschinion over at the proper time to the Maid of Honour. Observant people at the wedding could see the komboschinion moving in the Maid of Honour's hand as she prayed for the young couple during their wedding--a very touching thing to behold. They've been married 20 years now and are still madly in love!

After the wedding, my friend framed the komboschinion along with the delicate, floral wedding crowns, in a beautiful box-frame that hangs in her master bedroom.

[J. K. Amra]

Sorry, but can someone clarify to me on how you can use those rings in repeating the Jesus Prayer? I know that on the prayer ropes you can count the beads and what not, but how does one go about the ring?

[Effie Ganatsios]

Sorry, but can someone clarify to me on how you can use those rings in repeating the Jesus Prayer? I know that on the prayer ropes you can count the beads and what not, but how does one go about the ring?

I can only tell you how I use mine, J.K. Amra.

On the ordinary prayer rope I use the knots for the Jesus Prayer, the bead at the top for Psalm 23 and the cross at the bottom for the Lord's Prayer. This means that I start and I finish with the Lord's Prayer.

For the small wristlet prayer cord, I am ashamed to say that I mainly use this to calm myself when we are driving long distances - that is, when my husband is driving. He is now 70 and his driving leaves a lot to be desired sometimes. Saying the Jesus Prayer for each knot calms my nerves, so much so that I have saved my marriage many times using this method.

Effie

Sorry to be so flippant but I am still waiting for my husband's phone call concerning the results of his cat scan and this is my way of coping...............................

[J. K. Amra]

I can only tell you how I use mine, J.K. Amra.



Hi, Effie, thank you for your reply. I agree that these prayer ropes are great coping when in nervous or uncomfortable situations, or in overcoming anger or rage at times of emotional instability, I pray that your husbands health is in good shape, and your use of the prayer rope has enspired me to get one myself in the coming couple of days. Although I still am not sure on how people use the ring with the Jesus Prayer on it to pray, I suspect that you have to take it off and maybe, for each time that you say it, turn the ring. In any case, I was wondering if those komboskini prayer ropes last long enough in order for me to get a good use out of one.

[Ryan]

I don't think those rings are really meant to be used for counting prayers, only as reminders.

[Peter S.]

I think you get more stressed mentally using a ring, because you get "finnished" too fast with a "round". If it is in wool it is better because it makes little sound. A rope around your wrist is big enough for me but I only have a 100knot in my pocket, (for no use...). (I hope you dont use the ring when it is on your finger because the skin is thinner there.) : )

Peter

I am sorry Effie if I said something wrong about the prayer ring.

Just pray.

Christ is risen!

[Effie Ganatsios]

I am sorry Effie if I said something wrong about the prayer ring.

Just pray.

Christ is risen!

No, no Peter. You said nothing wrong at all.

Indeed He is risen. My husband is well. He is starting physiotherapy on Monday for his minor problem. Such a lot of worry and fear for nothing, but we are human and have been trained by doctors and what we hear on TV to think that whatever we have is serious. We are lacking in faith.




Effie

p.s. The doctor told him to rest and that is why he is presently in the garden hosing down everything because it is pine pollen season. I really cannot understand men...........................especially since everything will be covered with this yellow powder tomorrow again.

[Wade]

Saw these rings advertised recently...wondering what people thought about them in a sense of tradition and such.

I have been "using" a prayer rope for a long time. I use it to say the Jesus prayer and some other small prayers like "Glory to Thee in all things oh Lord glory to thee". It is a tool, practically speaking, and it is also a great aid in developing a life of continous prayer. I work in a fast paced, high stress business office and even there it is amazing how you can maintain a sense of prayer even in a place like that. It's not magic but it is a great help if you use it correctly.

God bless now and ever...
Wade

[Andrew]

There are little ring wool kombvoskinis. I used to have one, but unfortunately I lost it while sleeping or doing laundry, or maybe it fell out of my pocket. Anyways, they're maybe between 5 and 12 knots and fit around one finger, your index or middle, and you thumb it like a normal kombvoskini.

I always keep my 33 knot kombvoskini that someone very dear to me made for me, and I also have a couple of 150 knot kombvoskinis with small knots that that same person made - I really cherish these. I am a big fan of the 150 knot kombvoskinis, they give you a little more time and space than the 100's, but they're not as long and cumbersome as the 300 knot ones.

[Effie Ganatsios]

About a month or so ago we visited a monastery in the mountains near our home. I saw the wrist kombologoi in the little shop the nuns had in their monastery, and remembering the discussion on this thread I asked the nun whether these wrist komobologoi are "Orthodox". She said that of course they were. The kombologoi are used to keep our minds on our prayers. No matter what type of kombologio you have, it is just an aid when you pray.

Effie

-oi is plural
-io is singular

[Olga]

I might be wrong here, dear Effie, but it is the komboskini, made of wool or silk, which is used for Orthodox prayer, not the komboloi, whose hard beads, strung on a chain (or thick fishing line) which is used exclusively by Greek males as a plaything to keep their hands occupied. Having said that, there is a hilarious true story concerning two friends who attended a soccer match in Greece, where it could be said that the komboloi used by one of them had something of a religious, though not exactly Orthodox, significance. I'd be happy to share the story, but I'm afraid it will derail the thread.

Komboloia (plural) are also a feature of male culture in Turkey and Arabic countries, and it is most likely that Greece adopted the komboloi during the Ottoman period.

[Effie Ganatsios]

I might be wrong here, dear Effie, but it is the komboskini, made of wool or silk, which is used for Orthodox prayer, not the komboloi, whose hard beads, strung on a chain (or thick fishing line) which is used exclusively by Greek males as a plaything to keep their hands occupied. Having said that, there is a hilarious true story concerning two friends who attended a soccer match in Greece, where it could be said that the komboloi used by one of them had something of a religious, though not exactly Orthodox, significance. I'd be happy to share the story, but I'm afraid it will derail the thread.

Komboloia (plural) are also a feature of male culture in Turkey and Arabic countries, and it is most likely that Greece adopted the komboloi during the Ottoman period.

Olga, you put me to shame.......................... you are absolutely right. Instead of my Greek improving as I get older it seems to be getting worse. First stages of Alzheimer's disease???????????

Thanks for picking up on that.

With a very, very red face
Effie

Please, tell us the story!

[Olga]

As you asked so nicely, Effie:

Two friends were at an important soccer match in Athens. The fate of both teams as to whether they would reach the finals rested with this match. One of the men had a komboloi in his team's colours, with each bead bearing a small sticker of the face of a player. During the match, he incessantly swung the komboloi back and forth over and under one hand, while he chain-smoked with the other.

The game remained at nil-all. Suddenly, a midfielder from the opposition team was fouled, earning him a free kick. The stadium fell silent. The players lined up to form the wall. The komboloi player stared dead ahead at the forming wall. He fed each bead, one by one, with his thumb, down the chain, and, as each bead fell with a clack, he intoned the name of the player on the bead, like he was invoking their intercession. The midfielder took the shot. The wall parted, a mad goalmouth scramble, the striker shot for goal, the defender fumbled, and the ball trickled across the goal line. An own goal.

A great groan of despondency rose from half the crowd, wild cheers of jubilation from the other half. The komboloi player hunched his shoulders, and bowed his head in despair. He found the bead sporting the face of the errant defender, peeled off the little sticker, and flicked it away with sorrow and contempt.

[Alice]

I can only tell you how I use mine, J.K. Amra.

On the ordinary prayer rope I use the knots for the Jesus Prayer, the bead at the top for Psalm 23 and the cross at the bottom for the Lord's Prayer. This means that I start and I finish with the Lord's Prayer.

For the small wristlet prayer cord, I am ashamed to say that I mainly use this to calm myself when we are driving long distances - that is, when my husband is driving. He is now 70 and his driving leaves a lot to be desired sometimes. Saying the Jesus Prayer for each knot calms my nerves, so much so that I have saved my marriage many times using this method.

Effie

Sorry to be so flippant but I am still waiting for my husband's phone call concerning the results of his cat scan and this is my way of coping...............................

Dear Effie,

Don't worry...I think that every non-native born Greek from elsewhere has made that error atleast once in their life! I certainly have...and let's not forget that the 'komboskini' has not been as evident in Greek life as the 'komboloi' has...though the use of the first is becoming more known, and the second is sadly dying a slow death--! LOL...

The first time I ever saw a komboskini (or prayer rope/chotki) was when my son went to the Greek Orthodox Ionian Village camp in Greece when he was a teen. (They had visited some monasteries where they were given them and the kids thought they were 'cool' to wear) The second time was only when I visited one of Father Ephraim's monasteries in the U.S. All my decades back and forth in Greece, visiting old monasteries, and even my husband who partially grew up in Greece, did not introduce them to me until that visit in the U.S. six years ago.

Now in the revived monasteries I visit in Greece (not the older dying out ones I used to where there were two nuns at most--sadly--like Nea Moni in Chios and St. Minas in Chios), I see that they sell them in their bookstores.

Regards,
Alice :-)

[Alice]

I mistakenly quoted the WRONG post of Effie's in my above post. This was the one I was responding to:



Olga, you put me to shame.......................... you are absolutely right. Instead of my Greek improving as I get older it seems to be getting worse. First stages of Alzheimer's disease???????????

Thanks for picking up on that.

With a very, very red face
Effie

Please, tell us the story!

[Constantine]

Dear Reader Michael,

Do you find that the floss wrist prayer ropes stretch out as much as the wool ones? I have had one of the latter for just over a week and it has stretched out considerably from whenever I take it off. It is not to the point of sliding off my wrist completely but I'm curious if the floss ropes do not stretch as much as the wool. Thank you very much.

Yours in Christ,
Constantine


I got a 100-knot woollen one initially but it frayed terribly at the end and it was very dry and absorbed moisture from my skin. Because of my eczema, my wrist became very dry and irritated. In cold weather, when my eczeman gets quite bad, my skin in some areas can crack and the wool worsened this. I eventually replaced it with one of the "floss" ones from here (http://www.athenshop.com/) and have had it now for nearly a year without problem. Its use has been a great aid to me. I have a small fabric pouch which has an icon of the Mother of God woven into it. I think it was originally intended as a rosary case but it works fine for keeping my chotki in my bag. When I'm travelling or at home, I often wear it on my wrist where it is readily accessible if I have cause to use it.

In my experience of both of the ones that I have had, they have come with the knots packed very tightly together. I have stretched mine out as far it will go, and it wraps around my wrist four times. For those of larger proportions, I should imagine that solution is to stretch the knots apart only a little to begin with, and wrap it around the wrist fewer times, gently stretching it a little further if necessary.

In Christ,
Michael

[Georgios Stavronikitianos]

Hello All,

I always wear my prayer rope on my wrist regardless. I also have a 1000 komboskinion at home (from Mount Athos) for decoration in my chapel at home. I think that all form of prayer is good, but many of these rings etc. have started to become an accesory.

Being a traditionalist, I beleive that 33 knots, 50 knots, and 100 knot komboskinia are more than sufficient for prayer requirements.