How will we relate to our enemies in heaven?

[Byron Jack Gaist]

Dear all,

I'm wondering about our enemies, and what their presence means in our lives.

Is it possible that, when we go to heaven, one of the first things that may take place is that we are reconciled to all those enemies who hurt, doubted, mocked us, and generally stood in our way in this life? Those who spoke ill of us to others, those we spoke ill of? Presuming both we and they somehow make it to the kingdom (a big ‘if’ of course), will we find we are then able to hug, and weep with complete trust in each others’ arms asking for forgiveness in a new place and under new conditions? Will it all seem like a bad dream that happened on earth, the relationship being now on new terms and on a fresh basis? Will we be able to see clearly how we really failed to meet the Lord’s request, when He placed us in each others' care, that we love one another; and will we then be truly sorry about the nightmare time we gave each other? Or will we simply have crossed over into a state of such blissful oblivion, that past grudges will be forgotten and rendered meaningless?

What is the climate of feeling among the communion of saints in heaven?

In Christ
Byron

[Nina]

What is the climate of feeling among the communion of saints in heaven?

In Christ
Byron

The delight of being in God's presence will change us. Also I think that we can reach Heaven when we have love...

[Kusanagi]

i would of thought people would reconcile themselves with their enemies before they get to heaven, i think that would have been a stumbling block if they didnt.

[Peter S.]

I have heard that it is our enemies we are going to share "room" with in heaven.

Peter

[Andreas Moran]

We are told to reconcile ourselves with our enemies before we take Holy Communion. Christ's commandment is to love our enemies. St Silouan the Athonite and Staretz Sophrony say that love of one's enemies is the authentic criterion of Christian faith. How shall we get into heaven in the first place if we have not, before we die, reconciled ourselves with our enemies and loved them? And if, perchance, by God's mercy, we do get into heaven and see there those who were our enemies, should we not rejoice that they have been saved?

[D. W. Dickens]

I think this is a salvific thing for us to contemplate.

If I were to die today, would I have any enemies in heaven? It seems we have a lifetime to prepare our hearts, but a lifetime is only as long as grace allows.

Though I am certain a great many things which have separated us in life will be of no import in heaven, I'm more cautious than Nina in matters of the heart. If we have darkened a disease in our hearts towards our brother, I'd say we are not prepared for that dread judgment seat of Christ.

If we do not forgive, our heavenly Father will not. Maybe the scariest thing spoken by our Lord.

[Mary]

I think, in one sense, our enemies are our best friends. So, when we see them in heaven, we will be very happy and excited to see them and we'll prostrate before them, and thank them profusely for helping us win so many crowns.

Dont' take me wrong, I love my friends. They're always there for me, they comfort me, they bring joy and laughter, they bear my burdens, etc etc. But having been pampered with so much love, I did not know that under adverse conditions, I'm a pretty nasty person. I'm extremely selfish and greedy and disrespectful and hateful and unkind and unforgiving, and plain ol' evil.

Both friends and enemies have unique places in our lives. When I"m broken and bruised and hurting, I need a friend. When I'm getting all self satisfied and happy with myself, I need an enemy to bring me back to earth. IF I have a friend who knows how to bring me back to earth, then I consider myself uniquely blessed. But such friends are extremely rare. So we need our enemies to do this difficult work of very caring friends. Granted, a friend is like a skilled surgeon and brings healing with cutting words, wereas an enemy just cuts you up, and leaves you to find your own healing.... but in the end, it is God who heals, and He heals you the same way, whether it was through your friend or through your enemy.

I've been pampered all my life and I continue to be pampered, and I'm afraid I'll just never see myself as I truly am. And if I don't see myself, how can I confess and repent?

Lord have mercy on my pathetic blind soul!

In Christ,
Mary.

[D. W. Dickens]

I think, in one sense, our enemies are our best friends. So, when we see them in heaven, we will be very happy and excited to see them and we'll prostrate before them, and thank them profusely for helping us win so many crowns.

Two things come to my mind.

First, some of my best friends were first my enemies (and my enemies are often more like me than I like to admit, as I find detestable in them that which I hate in myself). I don't know how many girls experience this, but it is common among school age boys to first have fisticuffs and then friendship.

Second, I was thinking about the sermon this Sunday concerning who would love the master more, he who was forgiven much or little. Perhaps our enemies will be such a great source of joy in heaven precisely because they represent the greatest spiritual reconciliation.

This assumes we are prepared to be reconciled.

[Kseniya M.]

While it's probably a good idea to remember that our enemies may well enter the Kingdom ahead of us, I think how we will feel about each other once we are there is a non-issue. In Heaven, there is no shadow of sin. Of course we will love them. We'll see them as God sees them. They'll see us as God sees us. How could there be any other outcome?

-Kseniya

[Paul Cowan]

This assumes we are prepared to be reconciled.

This also assumes we are going to Heaven.

[Byron Jack Gaist]

As I indicated in my initial post, in asking this question I am making the huge assumption - a fantasy really, but I hope one which may prove of some benefit - that we have 'made it' to heaven. I thank all those who pointed out very correctly, that this means we were reconciled to our enemies prior to our entry, which for me suggests the need to forgive and let go is imperative now, even if it is unilateral. Even if we do forgive, however, there may still be a sense of 'why?': Why Lord, has it been so awful? What was all that blood and carnage, literal or metaphorical, about? Presumably, if we are meeting our enemy in heaven, this is because they have also done the inner work of reconciliation and forgiveness, even if we both did so privately and alone while on earth, avoiding actual face-to-face reconciliation here. I'm speaking realistically now: how many of us physically go and ask forgiveness from our life-enemies and real foes, before we take Holy Communion? I would venture that most of us prudently follow the 'once bitten, twice shy' policy, and rely on our own inner reconciliation as 'good enough', we hope, for the Lord. At least I confess this is what I do. Otherwise, I probably wouldn't have time to receive Holy Communion anyway, because I'd be too busy finding my numerous enemies to ask their forgiveness! I'm sure there are more blessed souls on this forum with fewer enemies, but some of us are masters at provoking others, and I must in all humility confess that I believe I have been supremely 'gifted' in this area! Alas, my frequent provocation of others appears to be at least 80% unintentional, too.

So sadly I have to say to D.W. Dickens, who writes
it is common among school age boys to first have fisticuffs and then friendship., that the reverse has been even truer in my experience, much friendship ending in fisticuffs. Familiarity breeds contempt, they say, and that's been the story of my life too frequently to deny the phenomenon. I now consider myself truly friendless in a social sense, though there are several people I care about, and thank God I love my immediate family. Maybe I need to revisit my definition of 'friend'. I'm very fortunate in not feeling deserted by the one Friend we can all rely on, a constant proof that friendship is worth something after all. Of course I'm glad if others have not arrived at these bitter conclusions in their own lives, and sincerely hope that by writing this, I am not offering any sort of prototype that anyone should feel compelled to follow. I just prefer to call a spade a spade in my own life, because I then find that what is sweet in life is really sweet, and not just sugar-coated.

So, with apologies for the lengthy biographical analysis, what I'm asking is, IF we do get to heaven out of God's mercy, will there be some form of conscious reconciliation with the past there, or will our consciousness be so transformed that we will simply, as Mary suggests,
be very happy and excited to see them and we'll prostrate before them, and thank them profusely for helping us win so many crowns.? My mind completely boggles at this prospect. Even after 'forgiving', the best I can imagine myself doing when meeting my enemies in heaven is suppressing my irritation at seeing them there, and extending a hand for a handshake accompanied by a poilte smile - in other words, as much as I'm willing to do down here (BTW Mary, I loved the rest of your post, it's honest and you appear to have come through a great deal, all the wiser for it). Forgiving, for me, does not mean forgetting. Some are psychologically freer than this, I hope, but surely there some hope for the rest of us, too?

In Christ
Byron

[Nina]

I have heard that it is our enemies we are going to share "room" with in heaven.

Peter

Oh no! That will be too much for my ego! LOL I am joking

[Nina]

My mind completely boggles at this prospect. Even after 'forgiving', the best I can imagine myself doing when meeting my enemies in heaven is suppressing my irritation at seeing them there, and extending a hand for a handshake accompanied by a poilte smile - in other words, as much as I'm willing to do down here

In Christ
Byron

This is what happens on earth. In Heaven you will be so delighted to be in the presence of God that even if the most dear person of yours is in Hell you will not know sadness. How we say in the service for departed "there where there is no sadness, sigh, pain etc..." please forgive paraphrasing.

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Byron wrote:



IF we do get to heaven out of God's mercy, will there be some form of conscious reconciliation with the past there, or will our consciousness be so transformed that we will simply, as Mary suggests:


be very happy and excited to see them and we'll prostrate before them, and thank them profusely for helping us win so many crowns.

Maybe it will be that the future state with Christ reconciles all things.

There is an account of a vision of this state of the Elder Ambrose of Optina when he was a young man. In this state of the future life no misunderstandings and dividing passions were to be found. No sorrow or brokeness, only a joy and fullness in Christ.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[D. W. Dickens]

This is what happens on earth. In Heaven you will be so delighted to be in the presence of God that even if the most dear person of yours is in Hell you will not know sadness. How we say in the service for departed "there where there is no sadness, sigh, pain etc..." please forgive paraphrasing.

This is an attractive vision, but it seems to negate the need for us to work here and now to be reconciled. Moreover it seems to assume that only delight comes from the love of God. However the river of fire is light to those who love Him and a burning fire for those who do not. The same love and glory which will delight those reconciled to God, will cause others to gnash their teeth.

How can we be reconciled to God if we are not reconciled to each other? Yes, the passions may no longer hold us in this broken flesh, but if the heart has not be purified it remains cursed.

Could the love and light of God cause those who have not reconciled to their enemies who also stand in that shining light to hate the God that loves their enemies?

How do we react now knowing that God loves those who have hurt us and done us terrible wrongs? Are we angry that God brings sun and rain on the unrighteous? Do we see ourselves as righteous and judge our brothers?

It seems to me that we have much repenting to do. At least I do. I catch myself even making enemies of strangers who've been blessed by God in ways I wish I was. When I know with absolute certainty the depth of love our Lord has for those I despise, how shall I not despise Him?

In my petty little life, how often has I thought of the world as for me or against me!

I must repent, repent, repent.

[Kseniya M.]

As I indicated in my initial post, in asking this question I am making the huge assumption - a fantasy really, but I hope one which may prove of some benefit - that we have 'made it' to heaven. I thank all those who pointed out very correctly, that this means we were reconciled to our enemies prior to our entry, which for me suggests the need to forgive and let go is imperative now, even if it is unilateral. Even if we do forgive, however, there may still be a sense of 'why?': Why Lord, has it been so awful? What was all that blood and carnage, literal or metaphorical, about?

{snip}

My mind completely boggles at this prospect. Even after 'forgiving', the best I can imagine myself doing when meeting my enemies in heaven is suppressing my irritation at seeing them there, and extending a hand for a handshake accompanied by a poilte smile - in other words, as much as I'm willing to do down here (BTW Mary, I loved the rest of your post, it's honest and you appear to have come through a great deal, all the wiser for it). Forgiving, for me, does not mean forgetting. Some are psychologically freer than this, I hope, but surely there some hope for the rest of us, too?

Dear one, I think you think too much.

Somewhere in the New Testament (forgive me for not looking it up, but I'm terrible at doing Scripture searches on biblegateway.com), it says that when we see Him, we will have no more questions. This to me says that all those "why me's" and "why was it so hard's" won't matter anymore. Since Scripture says it, it must be so. We needn't worry about that part.

There is something you can do that may help you get there even in this life. When you pray for your enemies, beg the Lord that they will stand uncondemned before the dread judgment seat of Christ, especially on your account, but even more so, on anybody's account, that they be completely uncondemned. Now, this may stick in your craw at first, but stick with it. Beg the Lord to help you really mean it.

This should help you let go of the "I forgave but can't forget part," because if you're saying that, then you can be pretty sure you haven't really forgiven. Concentrate on three things: loving God, loving and serving your neighbor, and forgiving your enemies. Let all the rest sort itself out.

-Kseniya

[Nina]

This is an attractive vision, but it seems to negate the need for us to work here and now to be reconciled. ....

I must repent, repent, repent.

No, no, no. I think it is a misunderstanding. As you see in the very first post in this thread I say we can't enter Heaven if we do not have love! So I took for granted that that is a given and understood. I just wanted to emphasize that Heaven is not a place like here.
I just leave out things, sorry, because I think those points are pre-requisite to even enter Heaven.

[Byron Jack Gaist]

Dear all,

Thank you for your sound and compassionate counsel. This 'love thy enemies' business is a tough one! Kseniya, whose words spoke very deeply to me, suggests we should not only not 'despise God' (as D.W. Dickens indicates) for not punishing our enemies, and indeed for loving them as much as He loves us, but in fact we should somehow reach a state during this earthly existence, where we are genuinely praying that these hated enemies may be released from their debts, especially those they accrued because of their ill treatment of us! Well, I confess that whenever I said that prayer, I sensed a certain resistance in me, as if I was saying at the same time "but I know You won't really be letting them off Lord, for what they did to me; it's just that I'm such a good person, that I'll even go through the motions of praying for these *****!".

Well, it doesn't work that way. I know this, but I find it so hard to accept. Truly I fail in loving my brother, and I can count my friends on two-and-a -half fingers, as I said in my previous post; where should I even dream of finding the resources to love my enemies? I do ask God for help with this one. And it's all a circle, since I'm aware that if I don't manage to love all these people, I won't really be loving God as much as I think I am (D.W. Dickens again).

Last night I went to a performance of Handel's "Messiah". The theatre was packed, and while waiting to get in, I caught sight of someone (at least I think it was her) who once cost me my job, when she maliciously spoke against me, even after we had sorted out the problem which caused our conflict, or so I thought. I was unemployed for six months, with a family, so she could satisfy her own bruised ego. It's funny, I'm not even sure it was this woman I saw, it just might have been her - but the memory of her was enough to spoil any thought of enjoying this lovely baroque music. It was a ghost in my own mind that prevented me from enjoying this music, ironically music about God. I think in the same way, the ghosts of all our enemies prevent us from communion with God, and we must find ways to exorcise these spirits - spirits which ultimately may not be the same beings as the people who hurt us, just as the person I saw outside the theater may, or may not, have been that woman.

Pray for me, that these spirits may leave my heart for a journey of no return.

I think both Fr Raphael and Nina are correct about the reconciled state of bliss in heaven, a detachment from all carnal feeling, and a perfect attachment to our Creator - a set of totally new feelings, perhaps, but one whose nature we can't imagine right now. The business of what happens before that happy eventuality is what concerns me now, having read everyone's posts.

About that prayer for our enemies, it does acknowledge that their sins against us are sins. This seems important, because it's one thing to write off your enemies' debts to you, and another to deny that they do owe you. What do you think?

In Christ
Byron

[Mary]

I think both Fr Raphael and Nina are correct about the reconciled state of bliss in heaven, a detachment from all carnal feeling, and a perfect attachment to our Creator - a set of totally new feelings, perhaps, but one whose nature we can't imagine right now. The business of what happens before that happy eventuality is what concerns me now, having read everyone's posts.

About that prayer for our enemies, it does acknowledge that their sins against us are sins. This seems important, because it's one thing to write off your enemies' debts to you, and another to deny that they do owe you. What do you think?

In Christ
Byron

I've been thinking through stuff. It isn't as you say, that I have suffered much. Compared to my friend who was physically tortured and abused by her husband and his family, I've been living in paradise. Compared to another friend who was sexually abused as a child....

I fell apart because I'm the wimpiest person on earth. Like an egg cracks a lot faster than a nut... the smallest things destroyed me. Mostly because, I magnified them, by focusing on them, thinking about them, playing them over and over in my mind, adding fuel to them... and this unholy fire in me grew, to the point where I could've easily killed the woman whom I hated the most. Thankfully, God moved us to another continent. Although I haven't hated anyone else as much as that one woman, the hatred in me infused everything I did, and even the good things that I did for my children, were polluted. It was also very easy for me to build up such resentment and hatred towards anyone, because I"d gotten so good at it.

All this time, I deluded myself in believing that I truly loved God. Then, God sent me a friend. I became Orthodox. And he told me, that he had always been taught, that however much he loved the brother whom he loved least, that is how much he loved God. It was then, very easy for me to calculate how much I loved God. Basically, I hated Him enough to kill Him. And that is a place that I did not want to remain in.

We had the Holy Unction service at our parish two days ago. And these words keep playing over and over in my mind: "Freely you have received, freely give..." I have been given much. I've never known hunger. I've never been physically abused. I've never been sick, I have good friends and family, and so much more. I have been given much. Even if I were the most generous person, extremely kind and patient with everyone I meet, a true friend to every human who crosses my path, even pour out my life in service to others, I still would've only given out of what I have already been given. I wouldn't have given sacrificially. I wouldn't have given that which I have had to work for.

So, I owe a debt bigger than I can repay. I can't think anymore, of what people owe me. It is quite small, compared to all the good that has been so freely given to me. And it seems to be more beneficial to me, to focus on my own debt, which grows every day! Every time my friends are good to me, my debt increases. Every time a stranger helps me, by debt increases. Every time I am forgiven for being a stink bug, my debt increases exponentially. I increase my debt too, every time I am unkind, run out of patience for my children, waste my time, procrastinate, or 'forget' to do the good thing that I know I should be doing...

Also, about feelings, I've come to see my feelings as being unreliable. They are not a good judge of the Truth. In fact, I wonder if my feelings are completely false, and what I have labeled as 'happy' 'sad' 'betrayed' 'unsafe' etc, etc, is actually wrong! I don't know yet. I've been trying, to just not label my feelings anymore. Better yet, just ignore them. It's very easy to add to the feelings, when I focus on them, and try to define and describe them. I don't know. I've always relied on my feelings for everything I've done. So, I'm in a place where I"m quite lost. But it doesn't matter. It's time to go start repaying my debt to God.

Love in Christ,
Mary.

PS - I've read, that there's two ways to defeat your passions. One is to take it head on and overpower it, with God's help. The other, is to starve it to death, by refusing to give it any attention, good or bad. For me, the latter is easier - I just need to find other things to focus on. Doesn't always work. But it gets easier.

[Kseniya M.]

So, I owe a debt bigger than I can repay. I can't think anymore, of what people owe me. It is quite small, compared to all the good that has been so freely given to me. And it seems to be more beneficial to me, to focus on my own debt, which grows every day! Every time my friends are good to me, my debt increases. Every time a stranger helps me, by debt increases. Every time I am forgiven for being a stink bug, my debt increases exponentially. I increase my debt too, every time I am unkind, run out of patience for my children, waste my time, procrastinate, or 'forget' to do the good thing that I know I should be doing...

My indebtedness is more of the "I have a lot to be forgiven of" kind. If I want to get into the Kingdom, I'm going to have to forgive everybody everything they ever did to me. So my enemies are actually a help to me in that respect. They give me material to forgive, and the more I forgive, the more forgiveness I can receive. And I need to hope for their salvation, because all of Heaven rejoices when one lost sheep returns.

The Germans call the reverse of that "Schadenfreude," the pleasure derived from the misfortunes of others. It's very wicked. And it's exactly what we're doing when we take pleasure in the notion of our enemies going to Hell.

Somewhat related to this: I live near Binghamton, NY, where a recent mass shooting took place. I live about 10 miles from where it happened. A shooter went into the civic association while ESL classes and practice citizenship tests were being held, killed 13 and critically wounded 4, then took his own life. Thirty-three others in the building were uninjured (but certainly scared out of their wits).

One young man from the middle east was interviewed as saying he was glad he was shot, because he is only a young man and it was better for him to be shot than someone who has children.

I'm not sure who I feel more sorry for, the families of the victims, or the shooter. A lot of people in my community are vocal about hating the shooter, about being glad he's in hell (which we can't know -- and since apparently he was a very troubled person, we really really don't know). But if somehow the shooter can be forgiven, if he was deranged and didn't know what he was doing, then I would think that his victims, on seeing him in Heaven, would rejoice at his salvation.

-Kseniya

[Mary]

My indebtedness is more of the "I have a lot to be forgiven of" kind. If I want to get into the Kingdom, I'm going to have to forgive everybody everything they ever did to me. So my enemies are actually a help to me in that respect. They give me material to forgive, and the more I forgive, the more forgiveness I can receive. And I need to hope for their salvation, because all of Heaven rejoices when one lost sheep returns.

Oh, I don't want bad things to happen to me! I don't know if I'll be capable of forgiving!!! My debt includes the kind that I need to be forgiven of. In fact, since I have no good reason to have increased my own indebtedness by sinning so foolishly, I have much to be forgiven of.

Also, before anyone gets the wrong idea, long before I was told that I could gauge my love for God by how much I loved my brothers, I was listened to, without being judged, without being told that I was the cause of my own sufferings, that others have suffered more than I have, that I have had much more than my share of blessings, etc, etc.

In Christ,
Mary.

[Nina]

From St. Mark the Ascetic (The Philokalia Vol. 1; Faber and Faber pg. 112):

"Our future reward is made manifest through the impulses of the heart. A merciful heart will receive mercy, while a merciless heart will receive the opposite."


My sweet God, Holy Trinity, please grant me a merciful heart!

[Byron Jack Gaist]

Dear Mary,


I fell apart because I'm the wimpiest person on earth. You can't be, that place is taken!


he had always been taught, that however much he loved the brother whom he loved least, that is how much he loved God. It was then, very easy for me to calculate how much I loved God. Basically, I hated Him enough to kill Him. And that is a place that I did not want to remain in. Ditto again. This is no joke, and is going to take some work, but let's keep trying.


Also, about feelings, I've come to see my feelings as being unreliable. [...] I've always relied on my feelings for everything I've done. So, I'm in a place where I"m quite lost. Maybe feelings are both. They can be an important source of information about ourselves, if we pay proper attention to them, but they are not the only source of information. Hence decisions cannot be based on feelings alone, they are just one important factor we need to take into consideration.


I've read, that there's two ways to defeat your passions. One is to take it head on and overpower it, with God's help. The other, is to starve it to death, by refusing to give it any attention, good or bad. For me, the latter is easier - I just need to find other things to focus on. . I heard a priest on the radio yesterday, say that basically human nature does not change. If you were highly driven and impulsive before Christ, you will be driven in your battle against sin. If you were gentle and relaxed, you will pursue virtue in a gentle and patient manner. The violent take the kingdom by storm, yet the meek shall inherit. I think there's room for both, and personally I find a combination of approaches works best for me. Sometimes I have to 'hit it on the head', other times I have to tread delicately around the problem.

Dear Kseniya,


if he was deranged and didn't know what he was doing, then I would think that his victims, on seeing him in Heaven, would rejoice at his salvation. I'm sorry your community has had to go through this. I get mixed feelings when I think about such a person possibly going to heaven, but I totally agree that the option should be kept open. We do NOT know a person's soul as God does. So thank you for pointing that out.

In Christ
Byron

[Mary]

. I heard a priest on the radio yesterday, say that basically human nature does not change. If you were highly driven and impulsive before Christ, you will be driven in your battle against sin. If you were gentle and relaxed, you will pursue virtue in a gentle and patient manner. The violent take the kingdom by storm, yet the meek shall inherit. I think there's room for both, and personally I find a combination of approaches works best for me. Sometimes I have to 'hit it on the head', other times I have to tread delicately around the problem.

This makes a lot of sense. I think I use a combination too, since I've been told I'm drastic. I just forgot my drastic moments. =)

In Christ,
Mary

[D. W. Dickens]

I heard a priest on the radio yesterday, say that basically human nature does not change. If you were highly driven and impulsive before Christ, you will be driven in your battle against sin. If you were gentle and relaxed, you will pursue virtue in a gentle and patient manner. The violent take the kingdom by storm, yet the meek shall inherit. I think there's room for both, and personally I find a combination of approaches works best for me. Sometimes I have to 'hit it on the head', other times I have to tread delicately around the problem.


I'm doomed if this is true. The first time I came to vespers I told my spiritual father, I've come to learn humility. I remain committed to believing that much of my "nature" is in fact a personae. Outward expressions of my inner battles with my sin primarily of vainglory and gluttony. Only with humility and fasting (neither of which I can do more than crawl like a little child) am I ever going to greet the Eschaton with joy.

[Kseniya M.]

I'm doomed if this is true. The first time I came to vespers I told my spiritual father, I've come to learn humility. I remain committed to believing that much of my "nature" is in fact a personae. Outward expressions of my inner battles with my sin primarily of vainglory and gluttony. Only with humility and fasting (neither of which I can do more than crawl like a little child) am I ever going to greet the Eschaton with joy.

I had to chuckle at this. We never want our own crosses. *laugh*

[D. W. Dickens]

I had to chuckle at this. We never want our own crosses. *laugh*

Are you saying it's my cross to be a loudmouth know-it-all who treats every meal like a feast? Me, a man who eats like he is starving and plays the pipe for complements like a man with no friends?

:)

[Paul Cowan]

If the cross fits... :)

[Matthew Panchisin]

Dear Byron Jack Gaist,

How will we relate to our enemies in heaven?

I think if our enemies are worshipping God in heaven the relationship will be Orthodox.

If our enemies are not worshipping God in heaven then they would be doing something else. The relationship they have with Orthodox Christians would be adversarial of their own making, so you wouldn't want to be in the same room with them there.

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin

[Nina]

If the cross fits... :)

Like someone told to Maria Theresa for little Marie Antoinette, when she was asking if her daughter will ever suffer in life: "There are crosses for every shoulder."

[Peter S.]

Dear Byron Jack Gaist,

How will we relate to our enemies in heaven?

I think if our enemies are worshipping God in heaven the relationship will be Orthodox.

If our enemies are not worshipping God in heaven then they would be doing something else. The relationship they have with Orthodox Christians would be adversarial of their own making, so you wouldn't want to be in the same room with them there.

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin

This is not correct. Everybody is worshipping God in Heaven I believe. For what else reason are we invited there?

Peter

[Evan]

I am confused as well. Surely, those who refuse to worship God will be told to depart (so to speak), and not be permitted to trouble the truly penitent.

[Nina]

This is not correct. Everybody is worshipping God in Heaven I believe. For what else reason are we invited there?

Peter

I think Matthew (as I read his post) means that those who are in Heaven will be worshiping God. Those who are not in Heaven are doing smth else.

[Matthew Panchisin]

Dear Nina,

You're right, that's what I meant.

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin

[Peter S.]

Dear Byron Jack Gaist,


If our enemies are not worshipping God in heaven then they would be doing something else. The relationship they have with Orthodox Christians would be adversarial of their own making, so you wouldn't want to be in the same room with them there.

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin

Dear Matthew.

I am sorry. So you mean then they are in hell? I hope I am not meeting them there. But btw I have heard they don't get to see each other faces in hell.

Peter

Peter

[Paul Nurmi]

I use the psalms as my prayer book. What I love about the psalms is how they are so honest. There is love, hate, anger, joy, peace, anxiety. And the people bring it all to God and let Him deal with it. When we bring Him the hatred or whatever it is we feel toward someone, are honest with why we feel those things, but don't cling to those feelings, relying on them for our salvation, but instead rely on God in the process of giving these things to Him, He makes it possible for us to love our enemies and forgive them. As we receive His forgiveness-in this process: I have borne grudges toward people and could not forgive them, brought it to Him, then He performed a miracle by giving me love in place of the negative feelings toward those people. When it comes to heaven after death, all I know is, we enter heaven now only after we bring the hell of grudges and whatever other sin to Him, receive His forgiveness then by His power, forgive whoever else we need to forgive.

Love, in Jesus, Paul Nurmi