Monastic clothing

[J. K. Amra]

Hi everyone, I appreciate all of your replies on this subject, I have a couple more questions, I have forgotten one, but before I forget the other one I was needing to ask this - can a monk ever take off his robes? - as to bathe and stuff, and can he take them off in public? (I don't think he/she can.) And does a monk have to sleep in his robes?

I hope that the moderators will not make this into another thread seeing some of you can answer these questions in this thread without getting too off-topic, but if thats necessary just tell me and I will do it.

Thank You and God Bless!

[J. K. Amra]

I was needing to ask this - can a monk ever take off his robes? - as to bathe and stuff[/url]

OK so obviously monks do take the robes off for hygiene purposes, but I would still like to know about sleep and public appearance.

[Olga]

I can't comment on their sleeping practice, but there are a number of instances where individual monks I know personally have worn "work clothing" (such as a shirt or T-shirt and work trousers) when doing certain activities in private where a robe could be hazardous, given its drape in the sleeves and below the waist. One such monk was so attired during his contribution in the building and painting of the monastic house of his monastery, situated in an isolated locale. Regarding public appearance, however, all the monastics (male and female) I have encountered, irrespective of jurisdiction or "ethnic" tradition, have always dressed in their robes or habits.

[Herman Blaydoe]

Hi everyone, I appreciate all of your replies on this subject, I have a couple more questions, I have forgotten one, but before I forget the other one I was needing to ask this - can a monk ever take off his robes? - as to bathe and stuff, and can he take them off in public? (I don't think he/she can.) And does a monk have to sleep in his robes?

I hope that the moderators will not make this into another thread seeing some of you can answer these questions in this thread without getting too off-topic, but if thats necessary just tell me and I will do it.

Thank You and God Bless!

Like with many things Orthodox, the answer is a definite "it depends".

St. Mary of Egypt simply wore her clothing to rags and wore nothing from then on, but then she was not a regular monastic to begin with. There are monastics who never bathe. I remember an account of Fr. Seraphim (Rose) that spoke to the fact that he never bathed and the individual was surprised that there was no body odor associated with him. I know of one case where an individual had to leave a certain monastery because he had a skin condition and had to bath regularly but the monastery simply had no provisions for him and he had to leave. There are monasteries where monastics sleep in the same clothing they wear all day and use the coffin they will be buried in as their bed. Others don't. As some have already said, some monastics wear "work clothes" including jeans in the garden or around the monastery for certain tasks. And some don't, they wear their "work riassa". But I know of no Orthodox monastics who wear anything but their monastic clothing "in public". It depends on the specific obediences of specific monasteries.

Herman

[Alice]

I never thought about what monastics may wear when they sleep...that is a good question, though one that is totally unecessary. An equally unecessary but curiousity that is often asked is: do female monastics shave their hair off or just crop it?

I have seen male monastics wear down jackets, knit beanie hats and gloves over their rassa doing outdoor work!

Since we are talking about what they wear and what they don't, I have to admire female Orthodox monastics--wearing the tight headcoverings around the face neck, face and head which they do is not easy (for one, it can impede hearing, as well as constrict easy movement) , and for monastics in Greece especially, wearing black is difficult for the heat and sun (not to mention on the mood)..In my view, the female habit is more than just taking away vanity, but it is a form of penance in and of itself. I bow to them in respect and honour, because I think of how attached I am to vanity and how much they are not.

I have noticed, however, that there have been monastics in Russia (St. Elizabeth the new martyr for instance) that wore light colored habits...

Just some random curiousities and thoughts.

Alice

[D. W. Dickens]

and for monastics in Greece especially, wearing black is difficult for the heat and sun

I've always been fascinated that so many people in extremely hot/sunny environments wear black. It would seem actually seem dangerous to your health.

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear friends,

A few comments in response to Mr Amra's questions and others' comments since:


The normal practice is to wear the cassock at all times; but exceptions tot his vary from community to community and depending on what work is being done. I have known communities in which a cassock was removed and exchanged for coveralls for certain types of work (e.g. shop work around machinery); but I have also known a monastery where a special 'work cassock' (which went only to the knees and had sleeves only to the elbows) was worn instead for such purposes. This is very much down to the customs of each monastery. But the general rule is that, unless there is some absolutely pressing reason to do so (and in some communities, there might be essentially no reasons that would be considered to fit this), the cassock is always worn, whatever one is doing.
As to sleep: in many Athonite communities it is the norm to sleep in one's cassock, and this is also true elsewhere. Other times monastics may removed it and sleep in the trousers / shirt which are worn beneath it.
As to wearing black in hot climates: it is a common misconception that this is unhealthy / worse than wearing light coloured garments. Dark clothing is regularly worn by desert-dwelling peoples (often in preference to light). As for monastics: monks and nuns have been wearing black in desert climates for nearly 2,000 years.

INXC, Dcn Matthew

[Alice]

As to wearing black in hot climates: it is a common misconception that this is unhealthy / worse than wearing light coloured garments. Dark clothing is regularly worn by desert-dwelling peoples (often in preference to light). As for monastics: monks and nuns have been wearing black in desert climates for nearly 2,000 years.
INXC, Dcn Matthew

Dear Father Deacon Matthew,

I thank you for your answer to all of our questions!

However, please forgive me if I will have to politely and respectfully disagree with your above sentiment/opinion that black is no more uncomfortable than light colored clothing. :)

Since have spent most of the summers of my life in Greece, the sun is--for lack of a better word--brutal.
On the rare occassion I have worn a black top (unlike a cassock, without sleeves or with short sleeves), you immediately feel the sun's burning heat (and 95- 100 degree Fahrenheit heat) upon your back, and I can assure you that it is very uncomfortable...Infact, it is uncanny how immediately obvious it can be.

I am not the only Greek that has mentioned or noticed that. It is the reason people wear white in the summer there alot.

As to what constitutes unhealthy...who am I to say!! :)

On the other hand, my opinion is that a little discomfort is probably good for the soul. On that end, I bow in reverence to those wearing black, but will personally refrain from that ascetic exercise for myself right now. :-)

Respectfully,
In our risen Christ,
Alice

[Father David Moser]

On the rare occassion I have worn a black top (unlike a cassock, without sleeves or with short sleeves), you immediately feel the sun's burning heat (and 95- 100 degree Fahrenheit heat) upon your back, and I can assure you that it is very uncomfortable...

One of the reasons that "black" is not uncomfortable is because of the sleeves and multiple layers. The design of the monastic garment is more important than the color in that it traps the cooler air inside and by controlling airflow and moisture (evaporation of perspiration) it actually ends up being cooler than someone wearing less. When I watched Lawrence of Arabia for the first time, I was kind of surprised and amused to see him cavorting around in a rassa and exorassa which were the "bedouin clothing" given to him by his friends. The reason that the bedouins wore these things (and the reason that the desert monastics adopted them) was that they were better adapted to the hot dry environment of the desert. As for black - anything else would require frequent care and washing, but black doesn't show the dirt (which is one of the reasons my wife won't get a white riassa for me.)

Fr David Moser

[M.C. Steenberg]

My own response has been preempted by Fr David's words, for which I am grateful. The design of the cassock is clever. For my own part, I have never found that wearing one of a lighter colour (including in the hot sun of Greece) makes any notable difference.

XB, Dcn Matthew

[Father David Moser]

My own response has been preempted by Fr David's words, for which I am grateful. The design of the cassock is clever. For my own part, I have never found that wearing one of a lighter colour (including in the hot sun of Greece) makes any notable difference.

XB, Dcn Matthew

One more note - Russian style cassocks do not have the same "cooling effect" as Greek style. Russian style is more like a fitted double breasted military jacket designed to keep one warm (and is usually mode o heavier material) than the flowing Greek style that is designed to keep one cool. Climate does affect things here.

Fr David Moser

[D. W. Dickens]

As to wearing black in hot climates: it is a common misconception that this is unhealthy / worse than wearing light coloured garments. Dark clothing is regularly worn by desert-dwelling peoples (often in preference to light). As for monastics: monks and nuns have been wearing black in desert climates for nearly 2,000 years.

I've heard this before. The science behind it must be fascinating. I suppose it relies heavily on the heat being extremely dry, so the air flow maximizes the effectiveness of perspiration. But I thought that alot of these "bedouin's I thought don't wear much under their robes. If you are wearing tighter western shirt and pants, the outer robes would seem less than desirable.

As for the comment about Russian style, I have great sympathy for the priest, deacon and reader of our parish in the summer-time. It's often warm and humid and they all have on at least three layers of clothing. I'm often stiffled and tempted to dress sloppily to Church because I don't want to face the heat in my nicer clothing.

Of course, I simply hate the heat so maybe I'm just a wimp about this.

[Alice]

One of the reasons that "black" is not uncomfortable is because of the sleeves and multiple layers. The design of the monastic garment is more important than the color in that it traps the cooler air inside and by controlling airflow and moisture (evaporation of perspiration) it actually ends up being cooler than someone wearing less. When I watched Lawrence of Arabia for the first time, I was kind of surprised and amused to see him cavorting around in a rassa and exorassa which were the "bedouin clothing" given to him by his friends. The reason that the bedouins wore these things (and the reason that the desert monastics adopted them) was that they were better adapted to the hot dry environment of the desert. As for black - anything else would require frequent care and washing, but black doesn't show the dirt (which is one of the reasons my wife won't get a white riassa for me.)

Fr David Moser

Dear Father David,

Christos Voskrese!

Thank you for this information. I found it very interesting. :-)

I wonder if the Bedouin also wore rassa to protect their skin from the sun?

Respectfully in our risen Lord,
Alice

[Alice]

Dear David,


I have great sympathy for the priest, deacon and reader of our parish in the summer-time. It's often warm and humid and they all have on at least three layers of clothing

1. You need to invest in air conditioning--it is one of the best inventions for heat coupled with humidity! :-)

2. Greece's heat (and the heat of the deserts )is not coupled with humidity. It is a very dry heat.

It is funny how much of a difference that makes. Today in New York, it reached the high eighties. However, it is still too early for humidity, so it was a dry day and most pleasant. Opening the window is all that was needed. In New York in the summer, the average temperature is the same as it was today, however, because of the summer humidity, it is unbearable without airconditioning.

Alice