View Full Version : Why do we pray for others?
L. Allen
08-08-2009, 10:57 PM
I couldn't think of a better title for this thread, so I apologise.
I was thinking about the process of prayer, and I found myself thinking about how the idea of praying for someone else, which is such a familiar concept that I seldom really think about it, is actually quite difficult to place in context. Obviously, we all wish others well, but firstly, God surely knows what we wish, and, secondly, we are all imperfect and guilty, so why do we believe our prayers should have an effect? How are we to know when this strays into arrogance? (I am sure most people can think of a particular instance when we just knew that declared piety was in fact mostly for show, as in, 'look how good I am, I'm praying for so-and-so, so obviously I am more pious than s/he is!').
In case it needs saying, I am not in the least trying to argue against prayer, and I do very strongly believe that prayer for others is wonderful and something that one should aspire to do, with sincerity. And, also, I know that it is very important discipline to truly consider others and put their needs first. However, still find myself struggling to understand in theoretical terms why it is not arrogant or redundant to pray for another - and I like to know *why* I believe things, as well as knowing that I *do* believe them! Can anyone help set my mind at rest?
Andreas Moran
09-08-2009, 12:31 AM
Prayer is our expression of love for our fellow men. God is love. The Holy Trinity is a communion of love, love which moves dynamically amongst the divine persons. If God did not exist in trinity, His love would be self-regarding and so not love. We are commanded by God to love. Trinitarian love extends from the Divine Persons to us. We are not to keep this love but in turn, like the Persons of the Holy Trinity, to make it dynamic, to make it circulate as it were. Otherwise, it would not be love. Prayer is the way we pass Trinitarian love, which is given to us, on to others. According to Elder Sophrony, we should pray for others without having in mind their particular difficulty; we pray, rather, for God's mercy for them and for His grace to be sent upon them. This is because we do not know the true difficulty of the person. The person for whom we pray will accept God's grace as he is able and according to his need. Christ's love urges us to compassion for all and to pray for all. We, as parts of the Body of Christ, are inter-dependent and so bear mutual responsibility for one another. Whilst we should look at our own sins, we know that our brethren also stumble, and we please God by our concern for our brethren. This is because such prayer makes us Christ-like; He suffered for all and we must follow His example by suffering - through prayer - for others: 'the greater the love, the greater he suffering'.
Patrick Lee
09-08-2009, 02:41 AM
Perhaps these words from Fr. Stephen Freeman would be of help:
http://fatherstephen.wordpress.com/2009/07/07/the-communion-of-prayer/
Dear Lucy,
I think I might know what you're talking about. Let me describe (however well I can remember) - what my feelings used to be about praying for others.
1. I used to think that only people of a higher degree of spiritual maturity, could pray for others. So, I never volunteered to pray for others and I always hated it when others asked me to pray for them. What I truly wanted to say was: "I'm sorry. I can't pray for you." So, I felt cornered, and I'd say a quick, yes. But then, I'd feel really sick and avoid that person till they'd forgotten about their problem.
For some reason, I also never asked anyone else to pray for me. Mostly because it made me feel like a hypocrite - asking someone else to do for me, something that I myself was afraid to do for others. I also felt like it would make the other person think I'm relying on God for a solution, and I knew in my heart that I wasn't, and I didn't want them to think I was more spiritual than I was.
2. I was always embarrassed about my inability to discern what another person needed prayer for. I'd hear others pray eloquently, and articulate needs so well, needs I never even knew I had, and I'd feel ashamed of myself, because I was too blind to see what another person needed. How could I pray for them if I didn't know what they needed? I knew God knew their needs. But it seemed childish to say a quick: "Lord please help so-and-so. Amen" I thought, in order for my prayers to be heard, they'd have to have a few more words than that. So, I never prayed for anyone.
That's all I remember from my past. One of the things that thrilled me to bits in Orthodoxy, was the shortness of prayers. Ok, I know, we pray for hours, but if you listen, some prayers are exceedingly short. The liturgy is broken up by a whole bunch of tiny sets of prayers of intercession - the litanies. How simple they are! The priest says very simple things like: For the peace of the whole world, the welfare of the Holy Churches of God, and for the union of all men, let us pray to the Lord. And we respond with "Lord have mercy". That's a very short prayer for a LOT of problems!
In my private prayers, praying for others is very simple too. "Lord have mercy on so and so" or "Save O Lord, and have mercy on so-and-so." Or just ask for mercy and salvation on all the following and read a list of names. So uncomplicated!
I have no clue if my prayers have any effect, or make a difference for those I pray for. But it has had some unexpected effects on me.
My original relief was quite simple - I was glad I didn't have to pray many words in order to be heard, that I didn't have to be eloquent, and that I didn't have to know anything, not even the person's name, in order to pray for them. I was happy that I could say with confidence: "Sure, I'll pray for you" whenever someone asked, and I never felt sick anymore. I also felt free to go back to the person and ask them how things are.
Somehow, I feel like I'm bringing something before God, however large - like the safety of my children when they're away from home - and leaving it in God's hands. And when I do that, I feel like a world of burden has been lifted off my shoulders. I'm not sure when I started to feel this way.
More recently, I've noticed another effect on me, while praying for others. I noticed that I just like saying the names of those I love, because when I say their names, I feel like they're right near me. You know, how you talk about people you love, when you're with others who also know them? You like to remember them and recall the things they did or said that make you smile. There's something delightful about remembering someone you love - warms your heart. My prayers for those I love, aren't much longer than what I mentioned above. But on days that I've overslept and couldn't pray for them, I've felt like I've lost touch with them, and I miss them.
I have also become aware of the fact that I do not love everyone the same, because I do not love saying the names of everyone. And that keeps me aware of all the forgiveness that still needs to happen in my heart. When I have trouble praying for someone, I know things aren't right. For a while, I've been praying generic prayers, asking God to forgive those who have hurt me, etc. That's because I couldn't think of anyone who might've hurt me that bad. But recently, a few names came to my mind, and when I say that prayer, I recall their names. That has been difficult.
Anyway... I know I haven't answered your question directly. That's because I don't know the answer. These are just my adventures with prayers for others. Oh yeah, I have no trouble asking anyone to pray for me anymore. =) I need all the help I can get.
In Christ,
Mary.
L. Allen
11-08-2009, 09:11 AM
Thanks all! I suppose that what is coming across is that I shouldn't worry too much about how much my prayers are making me feel happy and peaceful (Mary, I know exactly what you mean about feeling close to people when you pray for them), and how much they're a selfless action.
Eric Peterson
11-08-2009, 03:56 PM
Elder Paisios of Mount Athos in his book "Spiritual Awakening" says a lot of interesting things about prayer for others, foremost, I think, that, when we pray with pain of heart for others, we give God an excuse to act in their lives without impugning on their free will. Perhaps the person we pray for can't or won't do anything himself. We pray to God, and He acts according to the request we have made out of our pain of heart in ways known to Him which do not obstruct the free will of the person we pray for. Elder Paisios, of course, explains this much more fully and better.
Since we are One Body in Christ we pray for each other and also Christ told us to help carry the burden of each other. Personally I find comfort and strength when my brothers and sisters in Christ pray for me. I do not know how to explain it but whenever I ask for prayers truly God gives me so much comfort, and I believe it is the miracle of the prayer of others. When God sees how much we love each other, He is blessing and giving more grace to all because in such loving act we get a chance to resemble Him. And theosis is our goal in this life.
Alice
11-08-2009, 07:35 PM
Nina's post was excellent, and I know exactly what she means...at times you can literally feel the calm and peace come over every molecule of your being at the exact time you later find out someone was praying for you.
L. Allen
12-08-2009, 03:23 PM
Nina's post was excellent, and I know exactly what she means...at times you can literally feel the calm and peace come over every molecule of your being at the exact time you later find out someone was praying for you.
You know, I don't think I've ever experienced that, but then I tend not to know whether someone's been praying for me or not. It's a lovely thought though. I do know it's really comforting when someone tells you they'll pray for you (except perhaps, ahem, the people who stand on the main street here and pray for your conversion to 'the faith of Jesus' because 'you're going to burn in hell'), I just never thought about whether or not you could feel the comfort if you didn't know the praying was happening. Interesting.
You know, I don't think I've ever experienced that, but then I tend not to know whether someone's been praying for me or not.
For instance whenever I have posted prayer requests in this forum, some hours later God either sends me comfort and peace in my soul, either a solution is provided, either I receive more strength to deal with the situation I have asked for prayers. I know that even when friends from here do not reply to the prayer request for many different reasons, they pray. I do not know how to prove this miracle, but this is what has happened to me and this is why I always ask for prayers. There must be some very loving and holy brothers and sisters in Christ here in this forum.
Prayer is our expression of love for our fellow men. God is love. The Holy Trinity is a communion of love, love which moves dynamically amongst the divine persons. If God did not exist in trinity, His love would be self-regarding and so not love. We are commanded by God to love. Trinitarian love extends from the Divine Persons to us. We are not to keep this love but in turn, like the Persons of the Holy Trinity, to make it dynamic, to make it circulate as it were. Otherwise, it would not be love. Prayer is the way we pass Trinitarian love, which is given to us, on to others. According to Elder Sophrony, we should pray for others without having in mind their particular difficulty; we pray, rather, for God's mercy for them and for His grace to be sent upon them. This is because we do not know the true difficulty of the person. The person for whom we pray will accept God's grace as he is able and according to his need. Christ's love urges us to compassion for all and to pray for all. We, as parts of the Body of Christ, are inter-dependent and so bear mutual responsibility for one another. Whilst we should look at our own sins, we know that our brethren also stumble, and we please God by our concern for our brethren. This is because such prayer makes us Christ-like; He suffered for all and we must follow His example by suffering - through prayer - for others: 'the greater the love, the greater he suffering'.
We cannot know our true needs, so how can we hope to know the needs of others? As you say, all we can do is to pray that those whom we pray for receive the grace of God and are illumined in heart thereby.
You know, I don't think I've ever experienced that, but then I tend not to know whether someone's been praying for me or not. It's a lovely thought though. I do know it's really comforting when someone tells you they'll pray for you (except perhaps, ahem, the people who stand on the main street here and pray for your conversion to 'the faith of Jesus' because 'you're going to burn in hell'), I just never thought about whether or not you could feel the comfort if you didn't know the praying was happening. Interesting.
Yes, indeed!!! You could get addicted to the comfort your receive from the prayers of others. =) And like you said, all prayers aren't equal. Your heart can tell when the prayer is to impress your ears - like the 'main street pray-ers'. =)
I know that a few of my closest friends pray for me everyday. Sometimes, I don't even ask them to pray for me anymore, because I just have to remind myself, that I'm in their thoughts at least once a day, and that alone gives me comfort. I sometimes feel like the thief on the cross who said to Christ: "Remember me..."
in Christ,
mary.
Yes, indeed!!! You could get addicted to the comfort your receive from the prayers of others. =) And like you said, all prayers aren't equal. Your heart can tell when the prayer is to impress your ears - like the 'main street pray-ers'. =)
I know that a few of my closest friends pray for me everyday. Sometimes, I don't even ask them to pray for me anymore, because I just have to remind myself, that I'm in their thoughts at least once a day, and that alone gives me comfort. I sometimes feel like the thief on the cross who said to Christ: "Remember me..."
in Christ,
mary.
I'm a big fan of that thief. He renounced his entire worldly life in a moment, and died in Christ, in Whom he will rise again. What faith!
Paul Cowan
13-08-2009, 02:08 AM
I know that even when friends from here do not reply to the prayer request for many different reasons, they pray.
Yup, Prayers abound.
We cannot know our true needs, so how can we hope to know the needs of others?
You are right. However when Christ commanded us to help carry the burden of others it is just that, carry the burden. Just like when He showed to us that burdened from the Calvary and the Cross, Symeon of Cyrene helped and carried the Cross for Him. This is the fundamental need to help each other in the Calvary to carry our loads and to help all we can to reach Heaven.
Paul Cowan
13-08-2009, 02:38 AM
You are right. However when Christ commanded us to help carry the burden of others it is just that, carry the burden. Just like when He showed to us that burdened from the Calvary and the Cross, Symeon of Cyrene helped and carried the Cross for Him. This is the fundamental need to help each other in the Calvary to carry our loads and to help all we can to reach Heaven.
Yeah, but Symeon was "compelled" to help carry His cross. It was not necessarily his choice to do so. However, Jesus commands us to not go one mile, but two and not to give our cloak only but also our tunic. I am my brothers' keeper, unlike Cain confessed. We must cover our brothers' sins when he is unable as the sons did for Noah.
Paul
Effie Ganatsios
13-08-2009, 07:54 AM
L. Allen, I have been taught that we do not ask for things in prayer either for ourselves or for others. We ask that God's will be done. Jesus Christ told us that our love for our children is nothing compared to His love. He wants only the best for us. It is therefore a matter of faith. Do we believe that God is a God of love. Do we believe that He wants only our good.
When we think of a friend in need we pray for him. When we think of someone as our enemy, we pray for him. I think of prayer as an opening of a path for God's love to reach those in need.
Monks in monasteries pray continuously for the world. Why do they do this?
We have been told to pray for each other.
"James 5:16 (New International Version)
16Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective."
We pray that God's will be done in our lives and in the lives of others.
When praying we are not trying to "change God's mind". He knows what is best. When praying we reinforce our faith in God, we open paths to His goodness, we demonstrate our love for our fellow man, we are reminded of what is important in our lives.
Prayers of gratitude are particularly important. Praying is not about asking for "things" because this is wrong. It is about being open to whatever God has wants.
One part of my bible that I try and read every day is Matthew 6. We don't advertise our prayers just as we don't advertise when we fast. I reply to prayer requests, not to prove how "good" I am, but just to let the person who has requested prayer know that I am thinking of her or him. Perhaps it's wrong that we post answers on the prayer request threads but I know how thankful I was when people replied to my prayer requests a few months ago.
Mother Gavriela says that when someone is in trouble we should visualize that person in front of our Lord who is looking at him and protecting him. We know then that our Lord is fully aware of the problem and what is right is what will happen. I don't have the text in front of me but the above is the gist of her words.
Prayer helps both the person who is praying and the person who is being prayed for.
Effie
Just a few thoughts - not necessarily in any order.
Effie Ganatsios
13-08-2009, 07:58 AM
My cousin is a monk in the Iveron monastery on the Holy Mountain.
I know that he has a list of all those in our family and at regular intervals during the year, prays for a period of 9 days each time for each name on the list.
This is a common practice. Why do monks do this?
Effie
Alice
13-08-2009, 10:02 AM
One part of my bible that I try and read every day is Matthew 6 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=NKJV&passage=Matthew+6). We don't advertise our prayers just as we don't advertise when we fast. I reply to prayer requests, not to prove how "good" I am, but just to let the person who has requested prayer know that I am thinking of her or him. Perhaps it's wrong that we post answers on the prayer request threads but I know how thankful I was when people replied to my prayer requests a few months ago.
I believe that internet forums have prayer sections in order to visually show the person that you are supporting them in prayer.
I do not think that it is wrong to post answers at all. I do not think that posting a prayer is prideful. Infact, I believe it is quite the opposite. It is all too easy for our lazy, egocentric selves to NOT pray for others, but to only think of ourselves. It was a great breakthrough in my spiritual path when I started 'stepping out of myself' and made a concentrated effort to think of others and to pray for them. And if we are all honest, when we do not respond to a prayer request on this or any other forum by writing, all too often, we haven't truly prayed for the persons.
A forum is something of an internet community/family, and if you ask prayers from your friends, knowing that they have responded to your request is a great blessing, and also a humbling blessing...It takes much Christ given and Christ pleasing humility to ask one's brother for help, so the least that other posters can do is to visibly 'carry' the cross for their brother who has sought their prayers.
On other forums which I know, sometimes it is a simple as one posting the word 'prayers for you', but with or without many words, the gesture shows Christian love in that they were touched enough by a particular request to put their fingers to the keyboard.
There are many sites on the internet that have lists of endless anonymous prayer requests without those who have posted them not knowing if they have been prayed for, since the lists are overwhelming. I do not believe that a forum of like minded individuals, such as this one, and where we get to know each other, should be that anonymous.
It may be more enjoyable to discuss theology, but that will not help us get to Heaven. Praying for others, on the other hand, and following the commandment of our Lord to love one another (because prayer is one of the greatest gift of love) may help us get to the final destination we all hope for. :-)
Just my thoughts...forgive me if I have offended anyone! :-)
I agree with Effie in that the power of prayer of brethren praying on these forums is indeed powerful, and the gesture of seeing their prayers on one's behalf is heartwarming.
With much love to all in Christ,
Alice
P.S. --BTW, Effie, how fortunate you are to have an Athonite monastic cousin praying for your family at regular intervals during the year! You are truly blessed.
Yeah, but Symeon was "compelled" to help carry His cross. It was not necessarily his choice to do so. However, Jesus commands us to not go one mile, but two and not to give our cloak only but also our tunic. I am my brothers' keeper, unlike Cain confessed. We must cover our brothers' sins when he is unable as the sons did for Noah.
Paul
Yes I agree with you. And we can think as a person's plea for prayers compels us to pray for him even if we do not know him. We receive so many emails from friends of friends who ask for prayers for other people. It is amazing the One Body meaning.
You are right. However when Christ commanded us to help carry the burden of others it is just that, carry the burden. Just like when He showed to us that burdened from the Calvary and the Cross, Symeon of Cyrene helped and carried the Cross for Him. This is the fundamental need to help each other in the Calvary to carry our loads and to help all we can to reach Heaven.
Forgive me! I seem to have entirely miscommunicated.
Of course we must pray for others. I was only stating my belief that because we do not know the state of other's souls, it may be presumptuous to pray for specific things for others-- as opposed to saying, in the words Christ taught us, "Thy will be done." But surely none of our prayers are despised that are offered out of charity and faith in His mercy.
Of course we must pray for others. I was only stating my belief that because we do not know the state of other's souls, it may be presumptuous to pray for specific things for others-- as opposed to saying, in the words Christ taught us, "Thy will be done." But surely none of our prayers are despised that are offered out of charity and faith in His mercy.
Of course we do not know the state of the soul, only God knows it. However if a friend has a problem and seeking God's help, I think we can only pray for him as we would for ourselves, and of course we at the end say 'Thy will be done'. Elder Paisos has said that even the pain we feel for another brother's problem, is a type of prayer. Because God uses even these emotions in our heart to help us all, and not to mention prayers.
I have difficulty praying for specific things (I actually just devoted a thread to it!) I do not know what to make of that particular difficulty-- I am worried that bespeaks hardness of heart, but I do not know myself so well as that. But farbeit from me to say that we should not do so. If I say, "Thy will be done," I am sure there are always more specific thoughts I have in mind and of course emotions that I feel. As you say, it's not just the words.
If I am asked to pray for one in need, I will pray for them.
I have difficulty praying for specific things (I actually just devoted a thread to it!) I do not know what to make of that particular difficulty-- I am worried that bespeaks hardness of heart, but I do not know myself so well as that. But farbeit from me to say that we should not do so. If I say, "Thy will be done," I am sure there are always more specific thoughts I have in mind and of course emotions that I feel. As you say, it's not just the words.
If I am asked to pray for one in need, I will pray for them.
Oh I see what you mean. But 'Thy will be done' is the sublime prayer because you are right that God knows all in all. That's the best prayer! And this is not a sign of a hard heart but sign of humility that acknowledges the authority and power of God and our nothingness.
And about specific thing just imagine if you have a very bad toothache and you heal after going to the dentist and then a friend has a very bad toothache and there are no dentists in the area and your friend is suffering so much and you feel so bad for his suffering and you pray. There is no obvious solution in the situation but you pray that God gives with His miraculous ways, relief to your friend. And even the pain you feel seeing your friend in such situation is a prayer your heart offers.
Oh I see what you mean. But 'Thy will be done' is the sublime prayer because you are right that God knows all in all. That's the best prayer! And this is not a sign of a hard heart but sign of humility that acknowledges the authority and power of God and our nothingness.
And about specific thing just imagine if you have a very bad toothache and you heal after going to the dentist and then a friend has a very bad toothache and there are no dentists in the area and your friend is suffering so much and you feel so bad for his suffering and you pray. There is no obvious solution in the situation but you pray that God gives with His miraculous ways, relief to your friend. And even the pain you feel seeing your friend in such situation is a prayer your heart offers.
I have heard it said that the desire for prayer is already prayer.
When I speak of hardness of heart, I worry that I am becoming like those who say that God will accomplish His will in a manner indifferent to the prayers of the faithful, constrained as if by necessity to do certain things and not others. But we do not worship a Platonic god.
Only God knows what is in our hearts. Perhaps it is vanity to speculate like this.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.
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