The veneration of the Cross

[Michael Astley]

As you will be aware, the feast of the Exaltation of the Cross is coming up soon, and falls on a Sunday this year.

I have a few questions with which I hope somebody may be able to assist.


The rubrics direct that the veneration of the Cross is to follow Matins. In a parish where the vigil is not done, may the veneration be done at the end of Vespers instead?
Also, while it is not stipulated in the rubrics, may it be repeated after the Divine Liturgy?
If so, when is the best time for it? Is it actually after the Dismissal or is it after the Prayer below the Ambo, when things are often inserted?
The rubrics also mention that the exaltation preceding the veneration is usually only done in monasteries and cathedrals. Is there anything to prevent it being done in parishes?
Finally, if it is done in a parish, (and I ask this at the risk of being anathematised), is there any precedent for reducing the number of times we sing Lord, have mercy?


Thank you for your help.

In Christ,
Michael

[Herman Blaydoe]

As you will be aware, the feast of the Exaltation of the Cross is coming up soon, and falls on a Sunday this year.

I have a few questions with which I hope somebody may be able to assist.

SNIPPED

Thank you for your help.

In Christ,
Michael

My priest would be getting the answers to such questions directly from our bishop.

[Father David Moser]

As you will be aware, the feast of the Exaltation of the Cross is coming up soon, and falls on a Sunday this year.

I have a few questions with which I hope somebody may be able to assist.


The rubrics direct that the veneration of the Cross is to follow Matins. In a parish where the vigil is not done, may the veneration be done at the end of Vespers instead?
Also, while it is not stipulated in the rubrics, may it be repeated after the Divine Liturgy?
If so, when is the best time for it? Is it actually after the Dismissal or is it after the Prayer below the Ambo, when things are often inserted?
The rubrics also mention that the exaltation preceding the veneration is usually only done in monasteries and cathedrals. Is there anything to prevent it being done in parishes?
Finally, if it is done in a parish, (and I ask this at the risk of being anathematised), is there any precedent for reducing the number of times we sing Lord, have mercy?


1. Given that this is a great feast, perhaps it would be appropriate to celebrate the vigil in recognition of the greater importance of the day.

2. I have done this in the past. One of the complications that arise is that you then have people who have just received the Holy Mysteries making full prostrations on a Sunday.

3. I would put it in right before the dismissal and then insert the dismissal before the people come up to venerate so that this veneration takes the place of the priest presenting the cross after liturgy.

4. I have not often done the full elevation (with the prayers and 500 LHMs from each side). Certainly I would not do this if you repeat it after the Liturgy. I would suggest rather that you take the extra time and energy and do the whole vigil and the shortened elevation on Sat evening - much better liturgically.

5. In some cases (such as at the Litia) it is permitted to reduce the 30,40,50 LHM's to 12.

Fr David Moser

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

On the 4th point the latest edition of Guidelines for Services (2009) from Russia says:


In cathedrals and parish churches with the blessing of the diocesan hierarch the order of the exaltation of the Cross is performed.

To say this more clearly in English: with the blessing of your hierarch the order of the exaltation of the Cross may be done.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Paul Cowan]

Finally, if it is done in a parish, (and I ask this at the risk of being anathematised), is there any precedent for reducing the number of times we sing Lord, have mercy?
[/LIST]

Thank you for your help.

In Christ,
Michael

Reader Michael,

I am surprised at you. You should know we dont' shorten ANYTHING in Orthodoxy. If it can be lengthened, we do it. Period! ;)

Paul

[Michael Astley]

My priest would be getting the answers to such questions directly from our bishop.

Dear Herman,

Thank you for your response. You are correct, of course, that discrepancies about liturgical matters in a parish should be clarified by those in authority so that everything is done decently and in order.

However, my liturgical questions here often stem from a number of motives. Sometimes I ask in order to clarify things for practical application in my parish where my priest is uncertain (which isn't often), as there seems to be a good base of knowledge and experience here, at other times I ask because I find something interesting and think it may be a good talking point, sometimes I ask because I have seen something that seems to me to be unusual and wonder whether there may be a variant tradition, and at other times I ask for no other reason than to satisfy my yearning to learn about such things. I'm not sure my bishop would thank me for e-mailing him every time something piqued my curiosity. ;-) I'm just trying to get a feel for how these things work and are put together, for my own learning, supplementing what I learn at my parish, at the cathedral, and through my own reading.

I should add at this point that I posted those questions before speaking with my priest about the matter, and that my ignorance about such matters is no reflection on his knowledge or lack thereof.


1. Given that this is a great feast, perhaps it would be appropriate to celebrate the vigil in recognition of the greater importance of the day. [/qb]

Thank you, Father David. Baby steps, though. My parish has only within the last two months moved into a new church. We had previously been in a private home where we never served the vigil. We have just, within the past six weeks, started doing Saturday Vespers every week and hope to slowly grow from there. We have discussed doing the full vigil for our patronal feast each year. Further than that, we are not sure what will happen.


2. I have done this in the past. One of the complications that arise is that you then have people who have just received the Holy Mysteries making full prostrations on a Sunday.

Yes, I spoke with my priest about this last night and he raised exactly the same point, saying that psyshologically, it works well at this point but liturgically, it isn't particularly desirable.


3. I would put it in right before the dismissal and then insert the dismissal before the people come up to venerate so that this veneration takes the place of the priest presenting the cross after liturgy.

Now this makes a lot of sense to me. I may suggest it.


4. I have not often done the full elevation (with the prayers and 500 LHMs from each side). Certainly I would not do this if you repeat it after the Liturgy. I would suggest rather that you take the extra time and energy and do the whole vigil and the shortened elevation on Sat evening - much better liturgically.

5. In some cases (such as at the Litia) it is permitted to reduce the 30,40,50 LHM's to 12.

Thank you for this. At the moment, we're erring on the side of doing the elevation and veneration immediately prior to the Liturgy, (where it would occur in its rubrically defined place if the Liturgy were to immediately follow Matins of the Vigil), with the number of LHMs in each direction reduced.


On the 4th point the latest edition of Guidelines for Services (2009) from Russia says...

To say this more clearly in English: with the blessing of your hierarch the order of the exaltation of the Cross may be done.

Thank you, Father Raphael.

The footnote in the Festal Menaion only says that it is not usual outside of cathedrals and monasteries but doesn't stipulate the the bishop's blessing is required so that is very useful to know. Thank you.


Reader Michael,

I am surprised at you. You should know we dont' shorten ANYTHING in Orthodoxy. If it can be lengthened, we do it. Period! ;)

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

:-) You are quite right, of course.

In Christ,
Michael

[Anthony Stokes]

Just returned from Vigil and the first time I have been part of the full elevation. It was a last minuted decision to do it, like during the Praises, but we did the Athonite Byzantine setting for litya which has 6 extra LHMs, so we really did 530. My voice hurts, but it was a nice part of the service.

Sbdn. Anthony

[M.C. Steenberg]

Ah yes, the economia of shortening 500 prostrations to 350. It seems there should be a penance. Somehow, 150 prostrations seems fitting....

INXC, Dcn Matthew

[Paul Cowan]

I don;t think our chanters were counting very well. I would swear we did 600 LHM's. 5 sides to the table with 12 repetitions of 10 each. Or maybe I just zoned out for 15 minutes.

Paul