What does the iconostasis symbolize?

[Jacob]

I am looking into Orthodoxy and while I think I believe it is the apostolic faith (that argument right there, I think, is probably the most effective), and believe Orthodox doctrine (to the small degree I know it), I confess I don't know much about the liturgy.

What does the Iconostasis symbolize? I struggled with it at first because I was thinking that it was simply another "veil in the temple," the veil that Christ rent. But I know that's not true.

Thank you for your time.

Regards,
Jacob

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear Jacob,

In part, you are right. It is the veil of the temple, and Christ does rend it. But Orthodox worship works on the sacramental, symbolic participation in Christ's life: without a veil present, we cannot see it rent -- an act we see in every service, as the iconostasis is 'rent', opened, at key moments.

INXC, Dcn Matthew

[Owen Jones]

One of the problems is that the symbolism of the liturgy is somewhat taken for granted by the clergy, who are steeped in it in their preparation for ordination, but ironically it is taught in an almost fundamentalist sense. And the symbolic basis of worship is rarely translated into the sermons or parish teachings. The symbolic gestures and events in the liturgy need to be "translated" in a way that the average believer in the "pews" (sorry, I attend a Greek parish) can appropriate into his soul. Again, we have the problem of theology being tendered as information, and not something that is visionary and transformative.

[Father David Moser]

And the symbolic basis of worship is rarely translated into the sermons or parish teachings. The symbolic gestures and events in the liturgy need to be "translated" in a way that the average believer in the "pews" (sorry, I attend a Greek parish) can appropriate into his soul.

Owen, If you haven't found it yet you might look for the two volume set of sermons on the Divine Liturgy by Bishop Augoustinos Kantiotes of Florina (Greece). This set of homilies are focused on the symbolism of every part of the liturgy and are a walk through though the Liturgy step by step. Being as you are in a Greek parish, this might be especially helpful as they are the sermons of a Greek bishop.

Fr David Moser

[Michael Astley]

Do you have an ISBN for this, Father? That would be great.

Thank you.

[Owen Jones]

Thanks, Father! Can you ship a set to Fr. Christos and Fr. George at my parish???

[Father David Moser]

The publisher is the Institute for Byzantine and Modern Greek Studies, 115 Gilbert Rd., Belmont, Mass. 02178.
ISBN: 0-914744-71-2. And for Owen, since GOA priests get a decent salary, I suspect that your priests will be more able to purchase the set for themselves than I.

Fr David Moser

[Herman Blaydoe]

I am looking into Orthodoxy and while I think I believe it is the apostolic faith (that argument right there, I think, is probably the most effective), and believe Orthodox doctrine (to the small degree I know it), I confess I don't know much about the liturgy.

What does the Iconostasis symbolize? I struggled with it at first because I was thinking that it was simply another "veil in the temple," the veil that Christ rent. But I know that's not true.

Thank you for your time.

Regards,
Jacob

Ah but what does the "veil" symbolize? Moses veiled his face because the people could not stand the brightness of God's glory shining from it. The Apostle Paul tells us that in like manner the meaning of Christ's resurrection is veiled from those who cannot accept it.

The veil is the separation of humanity from God because of sin. Christ's rending of that veil means that He has torn down that separation. However, we continue to "mend" that veil with every sin we personally commit, and God works to keep "rending" it. That is why the doors and the curtains remain open throughout the Paschal season.

The iconostas also reminds us of the wall of witnesses, the angels, the saints, the martyrs, the Theotokos and Christ Himself who "stand guard" to protect the Church and keep it holy.

Or so it seems to this bear of little brain.

Herman the Pooh

[D. W. Dickens]

Didn't Moses cover his face because the glory was diminishing?
I thought it was the fading of the glory that we was covering.

I'll have to look it up. I do remember him staying in the tent.

[Michael Astley]

The publisher is the Institute for Byzantine and Modern Greek Studies, 115 Gilbert Rd., Belmont, Mass. 02178.
ISBN: 0-914744-71-2.

Thank you, Father David. Sadly, I haven't £100 to spare. :-(

[Father David Moser]

Thank you, Father David. Sadly, I haven't £100 to spare. :-(

Are you sure you got the right book. Its been a while since I bought these, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't more than $30-$40 (US) per volume and very likely less than that.

Fr David Moser

[Michael Astley]

Are you sure you got the right book. Its been a while since I bought these, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't more than $30-$40 (US) per volume and very likely less than that.

Fr David Moser

I initially looked here (http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=9780914744719+&x=0&y=0) but later found one slightly less expensively here (http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?bt.x=0&bt.y=0&isbn=9780914744719&sortby=3&sts=t). It seems that the least costly option would be to purchase it from here (http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0914744712/ref=sr_1_olp_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1254346801&sr=8-1), though.

:-(

Edited to add that I finally found it on the publisher's website (http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/ibmgs/chatechetic.html) at a much more reasonable price. They could perhaps benefit from a search function. Still, that price for both volumes looks great. Thank you.

[Herman Blaydoe]

Didn't Moses cover his face because the glory was diminishing?
I thought it was the fading of the glory that we was covering.

I'll have to look it up. I do remember him staying in the tent.

Um, well, actually, I think not.


Now it was so, when Moses came down from Mount Sinai (and the two tablets of the Testimony were in Moses’ hand when he came down from the mountain), that Moses did not know that the skin of his face shone while he talked with Him. So when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone, and they were afraid to come near him. Then Moses called to them, and Aaron and all the rulers of the congregation returned to him; and Moses talked with them. Afterward all the children of Israel came near, and he gave them as commandments all that the LORD had spoken with him on Mount Sinai. And when Moses had finished speaking with them, he put a veil on his face. But whenever Moses went in before the LORD to speak with Him, he would take the veil off until he came out; and he would come out and speak to the children of Israel whatever he had been commanded. And whenever the children of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses’ face shone, then Moses would put the veil on his face again, until he went in to speak with Him. (Exodus 34:29-35)

Herman the not-so-shining Pooh

[Nina]

Dear Jacob,

There are some informative replies also in this thread:

Iconostasis and the kissing of icons (http://www.monachos.net/forum/archive/index.php/t-2473.html)

[Ryan Close]

I would definitely read Fr Pavel Floinski's amazing book "Iconostasis." It is like a short systematic theology built around the mystical understanding of iconography and Liturgy.

[Andreas Moran]

I have always understood the iconostasis as the interface between earth and heaven, between the nave and the sanctuary of the church. The Mother of God with the infant Christ on the left represent the First Coming; Christ on the right the Second Coming. The saints on the iconostasis are their as our intercessors between earth and heaven. The icons and/or frescoes on the north and south walls of the church showthe saints who see our efforts at progressing from earth to the realm of heaven, our 'athletic effort' as St Paul expresses it, and they, as it were, are cheering us on.