Humility

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear friends,

Someone e-mailed recently to suggest we re-launch something we started out last year, but then rather piffled out on: a 'theme of the month' to invite various contributions around a specific, significant theme in Orthodoxy's patristic and monastic heritage.

So let us try! I've taken humility as a way to begin for October, given that it was suggested in the poll taken previously.

As before, all contributions on all things relating to the patristic and monastic understanding of humility most welcome!

INXC, Dcn Matthew

[Owen]

Maybe we should begin with the scroll that is seen in icons of St. Antony the Great. The inscription thereon reads, "I saw spread out over the world the traps of the demons, and asked 'How shall I escape these?' And a voice answered, 'Humility.'"

[Alex Haig]

The man who endures accusations against himself with humility has arrived at perfection. He is marvelled at by the holy angels, for there is no other virtue so great and so hard to achieve.

St Isaac the Syrian

[Alice]

The man who endures accusations against himself with humility has arrived at perfection. He is marvelled at by the holy angels, for there is no other virtue so great and so hard to achieve.

St Isaac the Syrian

I am very interested in this..

Does this mean enduring accusations and slander without anger and attempts to self defend is humility?..
Is feeling a sense of defeat (helpless to do anything) the same as humility?
Is accepting that this is God's will and that there is nothing you can do to change it the same as humility?
Is keeping what you know about the accuser (which would clear your reputation and name) to yourself the same as humility?

[Paul Cowan]

It would refer to the first one.

I am trying to find the story of the monk who was acused of impregnating a girl and was given the child to raise. He did not complain but took the child and began to raise it. Later in church the child still a babe was asked who the father was and said it was the blacksmith.

Another monk was accused by a prostitute of not paying and told his companion to pay her in full even though he did not do anything.

Paul

[Herman Blaydoe]

I am very interested in this..

Does this mean enduring accusations and slander without anger and attempts to self defend is humility?..

Yes.

Is feeling a sense of defeat (helpless to do anything) the same as humility?
No.

Is accepting that this is God's will and that there is nothing you can do to change it the same as humility?
Not exactly. Not wanting or needing to change is not the same as not being able to change.


Is keeping what you know about the accuser (which would clear your reputation and name) to yourself the same as humility?
It can be.

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear Alice, you wrote:


Does this mean enduring accusations and slander without anger and attempts to self defend is humility?..
Is feeling a sense of defeat (helpless to do anything) the same as humility?
Is accepting that this is God's will and that there is nothing you can do to change it the same as humility?
Is keeping what you know about the accuser (which would clear your reputation and name) to yourself the same as humility?

Perhaps it might be better to say that these are the tools of humility. They are parts of the ascetic arsenal. But pride can destroy and bring down even good tools.

Enduring accusations without offering self-defense or self-justification, if interiorly, in the heart, this builds up pride and self-satisfaction at how righteously one is behaving, is certainly not humility!

INXC, Dcn Matthew

[Paul Cowan]

Fr. Dcn;

Seems we are damned if we do and damned if we don't .

If we don't control our humility we get prideful. If we do control our humility we still can get prideful from the control of it. So how is a person to be emotionally neutral? I don't like to think I give alms for personal gain, but truth be told, I do have in the back of my mind, "I should help this person, its a "good" thing to do". Not that I am keeping a tally of who I help out, but it does cross my mind, "here's one more to help".

Paul

[Vasiliki D.]

Do others feel humbled when they reflect on creation?

When I read Scripture I often find myself embaressed that I can get so caught up on "trivial matters" and think something of myself ... the reason is that I witness in the writing God's awesomeness and I really do stop and contemplate on what I am reading ... sometimes, God even has to tell it to me (us) straight. There are many wonderful examples of this delightful 'humbling' in the presence of the Word.

So, with this thought, I decided to open my Orthodox Bible randomly and offer passages from that section that I feel inspire 'humbling' in the presence of our Lord or where the Lord himself reminds us to be humble. Here goes:

The Bee

"The bee is small among winged creatures, But her fruit is first among sweet things. Do not boast about your fine clothes, Nor magnify yourself in the day you are honored; Because the works of the Lord are wondrous, and His works are hidden from men." ~Wisdom of Sirach 11.3-4

Clay in the Potters Hand

"All His ways are according to His good pleasure. Like clay in a potter's hand, Thus men are in the hand of Him who made them, To render them according to His judgement." ~Wisdom of Sirach 33:13

Job responding to the Lord:

"Even if I rebuke the Lord, hear such things, and am nothing? But what answer will I give to these things? I will put my hand over my mouth. I have spoken once. I will not do so a second time." ~Job 40:4-5

Job's confession and repentance

" ... But hear me, O Lord, that I also may speak, I will ask You, and please teach Me. I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear. But now my eye sees You. Therefore I depreciate and waste away. I regard myself as dust and ashes." ~Job 42:4-6.

Abraham intercedes for Sodom

" ... Indeed now, I who am but dust and ashes have taken it upon myself to speak to the Lord: But suppose there were five less than ... " ~ Genesis 18 ...

[Alice]

It seems to me that one can exercise and practice humility because one knows it is the right thing to do without being prideful and thinking one is 'good' because of it.

We do many things because we know that they are what we are supposed to do by God..Unless we are saints, and even priests have said this, we are all human and we all struggle with the temptation to various sins. Since pride is a sin, if we consciously struggle against it, that should be a good thing. I don't think that knowing that we are doing the right thing is akin to pride...if we sin, we know that we will account for it in confession, so why do it, if we can help ourselves?

Perhaps there is a difference between a healthy ego/self esteem and the humility which accompanies it which consciously tries to keep pride in check , and practicing too much humility (for instance a person who always says and believes they are worthless).

Also, when one lives in the world there are many situations which need discernment.

I think that here is a good example of a good balance of humility to practice which can be applied to many situations: A priest of a certain parish once said in his sermon, (and in the particular congregation this was needed as the ethos there was to laud their successes) that if our children are successful and bright, that we shouldn't be prideful inside and think that it is because we have been great parents, and we are so smart, and did everything right, but rather give thanks to God for the gift, because it is He that bestows all good things and deemed it to be brought to our children and nothing that we did in particular.

I think another example of healthy humility is one I also heard (and can be a particular problem in parish communities, especially among women)...that we should give credit to others where they have been bestowed their particular talent and defer to that talent, rather than begrudge them and think that we are the best in all things. How many times I have heard my parish priest complain of the clash of egos that goes on in the women's Philoptochos society and the Parish Council, -- because everyone thinks they know best, they are the smartest, etc.

I think all in all, if we were to follow the ways of an earlier and more pious Orthodox generation, where after sharing any good thing of their lives, they added, 'Doxa ton Theo' (Glory and thanks to God), we would all automatically be more humble and that would be a good beginning to practicing it in all aspects of our secular lives.

In Christ,
Alice

[M.C. Steenberg]

Seems we are damned if we do and damned if we don't. If we don't control our humility we get prideful. If we do control our humility we still can get prideful from the control of it.


It seems to me that one can exercise and practice humility because one knows it is the right thing to do without being prideful and thinking one is 'good' because of it.


Precisely! And this is the very aim of the ascetical life: that we come to exercise these things as tools to humility rather than the fodder of pride. We must simply be aware that our sin can transform potential good into evil; and then reside in the wisdom of the Church to guide us aright in ensuring that it doesn't.

My thanks to you both for your comments.

INXC, Dcn Matthew

[Mary]

Fr. Dcn;

Seems we are damned if we do and damned if we don't .

Paul

This was one of the first quotes that I heard from St John Climacus, while I was still looking into Orthodoxy. I totally love it:


"The sun shines on all alike, and vainglory beams on all activities. For instance I am vainglorious when I fast, and when I relax the fast to be unnoticed, I am again vainglorious by my prudence. When I am well dressed, I am quite overcome by vainglory. When I put on poor clothes, I am vainglorious again. When I talk I am defeated and when I am silent I am again defeated by it. However I throw this prickly pear, a spike stands upright." - St. John ClimacusMary

[Michael Woods]

'Once a brother asked Saint Pachomius, the Father of communal monasterial life, saying: "Tell us about a vision from the visions which you see, so that we may profit by it."

The Saint replied: "Those who are like me, a sinner, are not given visions. But if you want to see brilliant vision from which you can truly profit, I shall guide you to it. If you see a humble man with a pure heart, that would be greater than all the visions; because through that vision, you would see the invisible God. Do not ask for a better vision." (That is, he means that he sees the image of God in that man.)'

[Ilaria]

Fr. Dcn;

Seems we are damned if we do and damned if we don't

Exactly! And this is how we get to understand that virtues are linked one with another, as well as sins
my question: which would be the virtue that is definitely linked with humility?

[Vasiliki D.]

Exactly! And this is how we get to understand that virtues are linked one with another, as well as sins
my question: which would be the virtue that is definitely linked with humility?

The fathers tell us "Remembrance of Death", this is especially articulated well in the Life of St Silouan the Athonite by Elder Sophrony, God bless their souls.

[Peter S.]

The fathers tell us "Remembrance of Death", this is especially articulated well in the Life of St Silouan the Athonite by Elder Sophrony, God bless their souls.

Didnt elder Cleopa say that we must keep the remembrance of death at our left side and the fear of God on our right side. Then we will walk straight, in front of God. Alongside with the Jesusprayer in our heart he also says. And the mind in the heart.

[Lourens]

I believe true humility lies primarily in realizing one's correct state before God, rather than the way one is or "acts" among men.

What is the state of heart and mind when there is no (human) audience; when "alone" with God?

From an inward disposition that has realized, "God is God; I am not," will flow an outward humility expressed variously, employing the tools of humility (Fr Dcn Matthew).

Yet for humility to be true, one has to acknowledge both limitation and potential: Yes, God is holy, and I, the sinner, am not; but because God is holy, I am (to be) holy in Him (first), in order that I may be holy in all conduct or manner of living (as a result)[1 Peter 1:15].

A humility that results from a complete submission to Divine order has one knowing that "I can think, say, or do nothing of my own, but I think, speak, and act only as the Father enables me."

Such a soul has had a deep realization that in Him we live and move and have our being; in Him we live and act and are.

Respectfully,

Learner
.

[Alice]

Most of you probably know of the holy young hieromonk who conversates about Orthodoxy and spirituality with Prof. Kyriakos Markides in thei in his book 'A Mountain of Silence'. That hieromonk is now the Bishop of Limassol in Cyprus. Here in Athens we are lucky to have the Church of Piraues radio station to listen to all day and night, and many are the times which we are blessed to hear the charismatic Bishop and his culturally relevant sermons. Today was one such day on my way in the car to an errand.

The theme today was getting closer to God and how when we ask for this blessing, we are given the answer through situations--though they are not always answered in the way which we thought they might be.

Today, His Grace offered a true situation which happened to Elder Paissios of the Holy Mountain. He was in Greece somewhere at one time where he was walking on his way to a nearby church to receive Holy Communion. On the way, he asked God to help him be more humble...

Upon reaching the church, he presented himself to the Priest and informed him that he would like to receive Holy Communion. The Priest told him to stay in the altar where he would give him the Mystery, rather than go outside the altar and have to contend with the crowds. Before the time of offering Holy Communion, all of a sudden the Priest started to yell loudly, to swear at, and to insult the Elder--even bringing up sins of his past! The laity had no idea what was going on and they were stupified at the commotion which they were hearing from behind the altar. At the end of the service, the Priest suddenly became quite composed and sought the Elder's forgiveness saying that he did not know what came over him. It seems, says the Bishop, that God used this situation to answer the Elder's prayers to grant him humility.

Another story I caught in this sermon, related to how God answers prayers we seek for spiritual growth, but not always the way we hope for, was the story of a young woman. She prayed that she might get married in order to grow spiritually. She, ofcourse had in mind, a nice Christian family, a husband who would pray the morning and evening prayers with her, pray the prayer rope with her, etc...Well, she did indeed get married, but her married life was not the spiritual haven which she had hoped would help her grow in the Lord. Her husband was very difficult and was not at all the type who wanted to pray with her and share in the religious life with her. This difficulty helped her grow much in the Lord, as she clung to Him more and more for strength and consolation. His Grace pointed out that God had answered her prayer for a married life which would help her get closer to Him--just not in the way which she had envisioned it.

In Christ,
Alice

[Peter S.]

I know st. Benedict writes 12 steps of humility in his ch.7 of his monastic rule if I am not wrong. One of them (the first) is about fearing God. The second is to give up ones will. the third is about obedience to the abbot, and so on. But these are tools arent they? As humility is a virtue. But my question: Isnt humility a state primarly? A state in union with God, as when your mind is in the heart. Or is it also virtue? Is it a quality one has?

My assumption is that there are many states of mind that are humility. Many "humilities"/states I mean which all are Humility. The state in union with God as when st. Paul was in the 3. heaven. The 12. step of st. Benedict is a state where you naturally are doing the good in grace and happiness. With power from Christs love. It can be different kinds of living which results in different states. But in Philokalia (Kallistos and Ignatios Xan.) it says that the best way/kingly road is by the Jesusprayer and the mind in the heart. It can also be by another tool (one of the 12. steps?), ie in service as a servant to others (a lowly person). I assume this.

And that the monk also in the 12.step (naturally?) has a body language and carriage which shows that you are humble and a lowly person. But this is for monastics. Maybe he ment that you should have this carriage anyhow if it comes "naturally" or not, I mean if you are aware of it or not. Then I think it is something new and westernly and not what was practiced in Egypt, but I dont know. I know st. Benedict mentions the rule of st. Basilios, but not more.

Peter

[Peter S.]

The rule of st. Benedict also says that when one has accomplished all the steps and live in happiness one is not longer acting in fear of Gehenna. I dont know if this fear corresponds to remembrance of death. I dont think so but he is not mentioning remembrance of death in the 12. steps of humility.

In Christ
Peter

[Antonios]

"God wants and desires only one thing from us: our humbleness. He does not need anything else; just to humble ourselves, so He can actually make us partakers of His divine grace, which was granted to us through the mystery of Holy Baptism. Although we did not love Him yet, neither had we struggled to acquire His grace, He gave it to us as a gift out of His extreme kindness. He is only asking from us to humble ourselves and respond out of gratefulness and appreciation to His love. Thus, divine grace, which abides in us, will be activated and function accordingly. It will make us love God and get to know Him; it will do everything for us, if we only humble ourselves and allow for it to act."
(Elder Paisios of the Holy Mountain, pg.88)

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear friends,

I've enjoyed very much reading the comments in this thread - do keep them coming.

A thought that perhaps emerges out of them: How does one approach humility? It is well and good to say that we must be humble; can we perhaps focus on the practical steps the Fathers provide for attaining it?

INXC, Dcn Matthew

[Paul Cowan]

This is that double edged sword I spoke of earlier Fr. To say "how" I try to be humble no longer makes me humble in that I "show off" how I am humble.

But to risk not obeying, When in a meeting or just a personal conversation people are giving their opinions to this or that, I check myself to see if what I have to say is relevant or self promoting or even worth the very air my words may linger in. I am a very soft sopken person and since others know this about me, they talk over me or interrupt me to say what they have to say. I am polite and stop talking so they can but when they stop, I try again and am interrupted again. At this point, I figure God does not want me to share what I have to say, so I just keep quiet. Which perpetuates my soft-spokeness. When I press my opinion in a conversation, it is quite obvious how poorly my thoughts are received by others and helps remind me that I don't know as much as I think I do.

So as the Fathers say; Or rather what my dad used to say; Keep your mouth shut and show people how smart you are.

Paul

[Father David Moser]

The rule of st. Benedict also says that when one has accomplished all the steps and live in happiness one is not longer acting in fear of Gehenna.

This sounds quite a bit like St Silouan's "Keep your mind in hell and despair not"

Fr David Moser

[Peter S.]

This sounds quite a bit like St Silouan's "Keep your mind in hell and despair not"

Fr David Moser

Yes I also thought of that. But I thought more in the direction that when a sinner and criminal has in mind the thought of punishment, I mean possibility of a Hell, it prevents the criminal for doing more crime then what he actually does. It is so with me by experience that when I think of punishment I do less crime and sin. But this is fear of death isn't it. It is not remembrance of death?? And I don't think I practice by this what St. Silouan says by keeping your mind in hell. Maybe my fear is just the first step of that realization of not desparing in keeping my mind in hell? I doubt that and am not sure...Interrested in thoughts about this practice.

I think st. Benedict experienced that when he lived in grace he didn't fear Gehenna, so that means that keeping your mind in hell is a tool. A tool of humility?? I have problems with link my fear of the Judgement and st. Silouans "Keep your mind in hell" for the little I know.

And I agree whith what was written here: Anyhow I am doomed.


In Christ
Peter

[Vasiliki D.]

We should never judge ourselves by saying we are "doomed" - it is simply best to reply "I am trying and whatever God wills for me"; forgive me this is the advice of Elder Porfyrios.

How do we approach humility? I am wondering if it is worth exploring St. Augustine's work because I have heard that he places humility at the center of Christian life and provides a Christological hermeneutic for distinguishing between true and false humility; all Christian virtues are rooted in these attributes revealed through Jesus Christ.

Extreme Humility
How can we go past the "Extreme Humility" as central to the theme of "humility"! In Greek, known as the "Akra Tapinosi".

http://www.ewanco.com/~eje/icons/a-178.jpg

[M.C. Steenberg]

This is that double edged sword I spoke of earlier Fr. To say "how" I try to be humble no longer makes me humble in that I "show off" how I am humble.

Quite, Paul. But perhaps this is one of the many reasons it is helpful to look at the writings and examples of the Fathers, rather than ourselves. Most of us are far from pure enough to speak of our spiritual contest without it being either rooted in, or in some dangerous way, connected to our own pride; and so we all struggle (to various degrees) with the dangers connected to statements of 'I do this...'. But the Church knows this, and it is one of the reasons she preserves as so sacred the lives of the saints who have gone before and now surround us - those whose message, whose examples, of obtaining humility is a sure guide in our day.

Thank you for your comments.

INXC, Dcn Matthew

[M.C. Steenberg]

I'm grateful that Vasiliki posted a copy of the 'Extreme Humility' icon in the context of this discussion. The history of this icon I always find as spiritually helpful as the icon itself. It stems from the days when the burial shroud of Christ was kept in Constantinople, in the Great Church, in a wooden box in the altar. At certain points in the year, the box was brought out to the front of the Royal Doors, and placed in front of a large cross stood there. Then (and this is the suggestion of historians who have studied it) a rather ingenious mechanism of extendible wooden rods was used to raise the shroud out of the box so that it 'stood aright' before the cross - and the faithful, who prostrated themselves, were faced with this icon of Christ in His divine rest, before His Cross: the true sign of deepest humility, that the Son sacrifice Himself to death for the sake of man.

So what does the offering of Christ teach, in terms of our struggle to obtain genuine humility? At the arrival of unjust persecution, bow your head. At the jeers of false accusations, cross your arms over your heart, whether physically or interiorly, and gratefully receive what is spitefully offered. And when faced with the question, 'How far, how far do I tolerate this shame, this injustice', remember that the answer is the grave. This is what the icon labels 'Extreme Humility', and it is humility that we venerate and must strive to emulate each day.

INXC, Dcn Matthew

[Peter S.]

We should never judge ourselves by saying we are "doomed" - it is simply best to reply "I am trying and whatever God wills for me"; forgive me this is the advice of Elder Porfyrios.

I only meant as Paul we are doomed if we are prideful, and when we are not we are doomed because we are prideful in having that attitude.

Peter

[Vasiliki D.]

Elder Paisios on Humility, from p. 234 the Book 'With Pain and Love for Contemporary Man' p. 234

"In other words, Geronta, lack of humility and piety leads people to misinterpret the Gospel?"

"That's right; because, when humility is missing, the interpretations we are likely to give are the product of logical reasoning alone; they lack divine illumination"

[Peter S.]

Seems we are damned if we do and damned if we don't .


Paul Cowan

Hi Vasiliki.

This I ment. Damned, not doomed... Sorry.

Peter

[Father David Moser]

This is that double edged sword I spoke of earlier Fr. To say "how" I try to be humble no longer makes me humble in that I "show off" how I am humble.

I recall many years ago when I was still a young deacon, I served at a liturgy where there was a bishop and a whole pack of priests, but only one deacon (myself). Needless to say I was quite busy and every priest had a suggestion, demand, request, whatever for me. By the end of the liturgy, I was run ragged and felt as though I had been dragged this way and that by the whole lot of them. Then one priest came up to me and complimented me that I served with great humility. In retrospect, I understand where that comment came from in that I was trying to be obedient to all and thus considered all there to be greater than I, however, at the time I was completely mystified why he would say such a thing. I will say, however, that this one comment proved to be a great temptation for me because for many years after that I was always trying to live up to that comment and serve "humbly". I took pride in my "humble" service. Even now I have to struggle with setting aside the pride of humility because of that one comment many years ago.

Fr David Moser

[Paul Cowan]

I was told by someone I respect to never compliment a monk when I was on the Holy Mountain or anywhere as it would be a temptation for them. I did not understand. I did after I struggled with my temptation to offer a compliment.

[Ilaria]

I think that humility by itself will never "show up" alone; virtues are nourishing one another
Love teaches us humility. And humility keeps love alive.

[Vasiliki D.]

All virtues are gifts of the Holy Spirit; without God's grace and blessing, a virtue can not grow in the garden of our heart!

St Silouan on Humility:

The first year after I received the Holy Spirit, I thought to myself, 'The Lord has forgiven me my sins; grace is witness to this. What more do I need?' But that is not the way to think. Though our sins be forgiven, we must remember them and grieve over them all our lives, so as to remain contrite. I did not do this, and ceased to feel contrite, and suffered greatly from evil spirits. And I was perplexed by what was happening to me, and said to myself, 'My soul knows the Lord and His love. How is it that evil thoughts come to me?'

And the Lord had pity on me, and Himself taught me the way to humble myself:

"Keep thy mind in hell, and despair not." ...

The Lord showed great pity on me and made me understand that I must weep all my life. Such is the way of the Lord. And so I write now out of pity for those who, like me, are puffed up with pride, and therefore suffer. I write that they may learn humility, and find rest in God.

To learn Christ-like humility is a great good. To the man who knows humility life is smooth and joyous, and the heart finds all things pleasant. Only to the humble does the Lord reveal Himself in the Holy Spirit, and if we do not humble ourselves we shall not see God. Humility is the light in which we may behold the Light which is God-in the words of the Psalmist: 'In thy light shall we see light. (Ps. xxxvi:9) The Lord taught me to stay my mind in hell, and not despair, and thus my soul humbles herself, but this is not yet true humility, which no words can describe. When the soul approaches the Lord she is afraid, but when she sees the Lord, the beauty of His glory fills her with innefable joy, and in the love of God and the sweetness of the Holy Spirit the earth is quite forgot. [See post on Contemplation (http://www.monachos.net/forum/showpost.php?p=84021&postcount=9)] This is the paradise of the Lord: All will live in love, and their Christ-like Humility (http://www.monachos.net/forum/showpost.php?p=84219&postcount=28) will make every man happy to see others in greater glory. The humility of Christ dwells in the lowly ones-they are glad to be the least of men.

The man who has come to know God by the Holy Spirit has learned Humility of Him, and become like to His Master, Christ the Son of God, and is fashioned in His image:

O Lord, vouchsafe unto us the gift of Thy holy humility. O Lord, give us freely of Thy humble Holy Spirit, just as Thou didst freely come to save Thy people, and raise them to heaven that they might behold Thy glory. O Christ-like humility! I know thee but cannot attain unto thee! Thy fruits are sweet for they are not of this earth.
Great pains are needed, and many tears must be shed, to preserve the humble spirit of Christ.

Our hearts are frozen cold and we have no understanding of Christ's humility or love. True, this humility and love are made known through the grace of the Holy Spirit, but we do not believe it possible to draw this grace to ourselves. To do so, we must desire it with our very soul.

[Owen Jones]

I do not think there are absolutes. One ascetic may, from his own experience and observation, accentuate one step toward humility, but it is not to the exclusion of others, which in fact may be more relevant to another person.

I know a young man who tried to commit suicide three times. The first two times he hung himself from a tree. The first time he passed out and awoke later with a sore neck and a headache. He determined to try again, this time with a longer rope so that he could succeed in breaking his neck. The second time failed as well. Being a mechanic and an engineer, he then devised a plan to kill himself with carbon monoxide. He removed the CO monitor from his car and placed it on the seat next to him so that he could monitor the CO level as it rose. He had diverted the exhaust into the interior of the car, and sealed it with an expensive type of insulation tape he had purchased. He fell asleep as he watched the CO indicator rise to well beyond the fatal level. He awoke several hours later. At that point he cried out to God to "fix" his life. The next day he was stopped in a routine traffic stop and he swears to this day that cocaine was planted by the cops. Who knows? The point is that he waited 10 months in jail without bail for his trial, and then the charges were dropped. But he is convinced that this was God's way of protecting him from killing himself by giving him time to reflect on his life and the changes that he needed to make. Does he now have humility? He's working on that, but he now recognizes the nature of the problem!

[Vasiliki D.]

Dear Owen, while I sympathise for your suicidal friend and pray that his journey in humility becomes clearer, as does my own journey, the purpose of this thread is to share patristic thougths on humility?

TREASURE OF HUMILITY

In verses 1 to 11 from chapter 14, the Gospel according to Luke, Jesus Christ, in particular, says the following:

"When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down in the highest room; lest a more honourable man than thou be bidden of him; And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this man place; and thou begin with shame to take the lowest room. But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee. For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted."
Reflecting on the above-mentioned, St. Theophanes, the Recluse writes the following:

"When you are invited somewhere, do not take the best place [Lk.l4:8]. Or, more generally, under any circumstances choose the lowliest part. The whole treasure of humility is condensed in this simple rule. Look into it carefully, examine various life situations and in each case make a choice of the lowliest part for yourself in advance. That will be your practice in humility; from the outward behavior it will gradually move inside, and sprouts of humility will be planted deep in your soul. As time goes by, they will grow, fed by the same practice, and eventually humility will fill up your soul and body and your entire life.

What will be the outcome? Moral nobility will shine upon you and cause everyone's respect: as it is written, "Whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted". [Lk. 14:11]. But never think about it when practicing humility; think about humility itself. It brings blissful serenity into your soul; it eliminates all worries inside and shields your soul from all troubles outside. Just like a wave, meeting no obstacles, moves on without a splash or toss in the open sea, so the afflictions, inside and outside, never batter a humble soul, but move above it, so to speak, leaving no trace.

This could be called a practical advantage of a humble soul; and what a great light from above shines upon it, what comfort is given to it, what freedom is granted! Truly, humility alone is the focus of everything good!.."



Voice of Russia, 08.09.2009.

[Michael Woods]

"And what is the roof? It is my mind, which over - arches all that is within me. It is a roof made of many earthen and clay tiles, signifying earthly affairs. But if all these things are pulled away, and the strength of the mind within us is opened up and freed of the weight of earthly things, then I will be lowered, that is, I will be humbled. For I ought not to rise up in pridefulness that I have been unburdened of earthly things; but instead, after I have been unburdened of earthly things, I ought to be lowered, that is, humbled."
(St. Theophylact of Ochrid)

[John Frangos]

The word humility always reminds me of the word meek which in turn reminds me of the beatitudes. So I thought I'd have a look and see whether humility rates a mention in the beatitudes or how it fits in. Although not specifically mentioned it appears to be a prerequisite to each of the 8 beatitudes....!

[Mary M.]

Seems like humility is also recognizing that we're limited and need God's help. I can plan to cross the street to get to the other side,and though I'm careful I can't foresee a car running the red light or other disaster.I must depend on God to see me safely across the street; it really isn't up to me.

My mother is one of the most humble people I know in that when she knows she's in the wrong she humbly defers and accepts correction. It is amazing and very beautiful to watch her do that;very inspiring.

[Peter S.]

I think humility is very much connected with repentance.

I remember one time I repented and was reflecting and suddenly a thoght came to me and by me that repentance was connected with keeping your mind in hell. I asked my spiritual father and my suggestion was right about what keeping my mind in hell could be. I dont live it and have forgot now.

But repentace is connected to keeping your mind in hell.

In Christ
Peter

[Owen]

This is connected with the words of St. Siluan of Athos, "Keep your mind in Hell, and despair not." Repentance and despair are mututally exclusive.

[Lourens]

Vasiliki D makes reference (by quoting St. Theophanes, the Recluse) to an aspect of humility, even an outcome of humility.



"When you are invited somewhere, do not take the best place [Lk.l4:8]. Or, more generally, under any circumstances choose the lowliest part. The whole treasure of humility is condensed in this simple rule. Look into it carefully, examine various life situations and in each case make a choice of the lowliest part for yourself in advance. That will be your practice in humility; from the outward behavior it will gradually move inside, and sprouts of humility will be planted deep in your soul. As time goes by, they will grow, fed by the same practice, and eventually humility will fill up your soul and body and your entire life.

What will be the outcome? Moral nobility will shine upon you and cause everyone's respect: as it is written, "Whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted". [Lk. 14:11]. But never think about it when practicing humility; think about humility itself.

This quote, if read carefully, not only brings forth our Lord's law of life concerning ups and downs, but speaks of movement.

Is humility not a movement, rather than a static state? Will an exercised disposition and continuous effort to humble oneself not be met with being lifted up by the Lord?

Humility's true opposite then, if seen as a movement negotiating life, is not pride, but exhaltation. As a character trait, or virtue (strength), yes, certainly, pride stands opposed to humility. But as a consequence of an humbling of oneself, exhaltation stands not as a contrary opposite, but as an opposite complimentary outcome.

This is forcefully affirmed in the Philippian hymn, which follows on an exhortation to humble oneself:


Phi 2:3 Do nothing from selfishness or conceit, but in humility count others better than yourselves.
Phi 2:4 Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others.
Phi 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,
Phi 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
Phi 2:7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
Phi 2:8 And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross.
Phi 2:9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name...

It seems to me that humility cannot be regarded without considering an uplifting by the Divine operation, as an outcome of such an humble way of being in this world, and that any such exhaltation presents not only temptations, but an opportunity for moving into a greater depth of humility...from strength to strength, from grace to grace, from one degree of glory to an ever increasing degree of glory, partaking of the divine nature of an humble God.

Humility is a movement.

Respectfully,

Learner

[Alice]

I just got back from a great blessing...a nearby church had Bishop Athanasios of Limassol, Cyprus (otherwise known as the [then] hieromonk who converses with Prof. Kyriakos Markides in the book 'A Mountain of Silence') as their invited guest this weekend, and after vespers he spoke in his beautiful, down to earth, and God inspired manner...

Among other things, he touched upon the subject of humility and shared a story with us:

He was at a monastery hearing confessions, and when the next appointment was late, he got up to get some air and to walk out of the chapel where he saw a young man. The young man was walking up to the icons in the church and looking at them but not venerating them. He admitted that he thought that perhaps the boy was not Orthodox, or perhaps he was disgusted to kiss the icons....and he approached him and told him 'go ahead, venerate the icons'.

He received a response which surprised him, and was not any of the things he was thinking. The boy said that he felt too unworthy to approach Christ in an icon and to kiss him. He said he felt that he was completely filthy from his sins and could not possibly kiss them.

His Eminence then went on to say that this rattled him, as he had never himself thought of himself as too sinful to kiss and venerate an icon. This boy's statement reflected true and utter humility.

On the other hand, he said, (as an example of pride)--sometimes he gets people who come to confession and speak so much about the good and wonderful things that they do, that they practically start crying from being touched by their own goodness!!!

In Christ,
Alice

[Mary M.]

Alice, what a blessing to hear the Archbishop speak ( I'm reading the second Kyriacos book featuring him now,and his explanations are so helpful)
Wow. Too sinful to kiss the Icon of Christ.I admit I've never thought of it that way at all (maybe it should). That's food for thought.

I'm reminded by the St. Theophan quote of a friend who always seats herself in the least desired seat. Watching her makes me uncomfortably aware of my own sense of entitlement. Very humbling.

[Vasiliki D.]

"You must ask in prayer: "Give me faith. Give me the love of Jesus. Give me humility" These things are all gifts. Only God can grant them. Pray. Pray. Pray." said Gerontissa Makrina (+1995)
----
"If you want to grab God's attention so He will hear you during prayer, turn the dial to humility, for God always works in this frequency; then humbly ask for His mercy." said Elder Paisios of the Holy Mountain.
----
"I once asked a simple elderly hermit ... 'Why are your lemon trees so full of fruit?'.
'Because I humble their branches, my son,' he replied." from an Athonite Gerontikon.

[Peter S.]

Vasiliki D makes reference (by quoting St. Theophanes, the Recluse) to an aspect of humility, even an outcome of humility.




This quote, if read carefully, not only brings forth our Lord's law of life concerning ups and downs, but speaks of movement.

Is humility not a movement, rather than a static state? Will an exercised disposition and continuous effort to humble oneself not be met with being lifted up by the Lord?

Humility's true opposite then, if seen as a movement negotiating life, is not pride, but exhaltation. As a character trait, or virtue (strength), yes, certainly, pride stands opposed to humility. But as a consequence of an humbling of oneself, exhaltation stands not as a contrary opposite, but as an opposite complimentary outcome.

This is forcefully affirmed in the Philippian hymn, which follows on an exhortation to humble oneself:



It seems to me that humility cannot be regarded without considering an uplifting by the Divine operation, as an outcome of such an humble way of being in this world, and that any such exhaltation presents not only temptations, but an opportunity for moving into a greater depth of humility...from strength to strength, from grace to grace, from one degree of glory to an ever increasing degree of glory, partaking of the divine nature of an humble God.

Humility is a movement.

Respectfully,

Learner

St. Paul writes about things fulfilled in this world and at the same time not fulfilled in the age to come. And that he is always looking forward, knowing he has not come to the goal here before death. (But his works is a bridge over to eternity by grace.) Like salvation and theosis I think humility is a moving state. I think the word state in english dont need to mean something static? And one can be humble without having acheived humility.

In Christ
Peter

[Andreas Moran]

I just got back from a great blessing...a nearby church had Bishop Athanasios of Limassol, Cyprus (otherwise known as the [then] hieromonk who converses with Prof. Kyriakos Markides in the book 'A Mountain of Silence') as their invited guest this weekend, and after vespers he spoke in his beautiful, down to earth, and God inspired manner...

Among other things, he touched upon the subject of humility and shared a story with us:

He was at a monastery hearing confessions, and when the next appointment was late, he got up to get some air and to walk out of the chapel where he saw a young man. The young man was walking up to the icons in the church and looking at them but not venerating them. He admitted that he thought that perhaps the boy was not Orthodox, or perhaps he was disgusted to kiss the icons....and he approached him and told him 'go ahead, venerate the icons'.

He received a response which surprised him, and was not any of the things he was thinking. The boy said that he felt too unworthy to approach Christ in an icon and to kiss him. He said he felt that he was completely filthy from his sins and could not possibly kiss them.

His Eminence then went on to say that this rattled him, as he had never himself thought of himself as too sinful to kiss and venerate an icon. This boy's statement reflected true and utter humility.

On the other hand, he said, (as an example of pride)--sometimes he gets people who come to confession and speak so much about the good and wonderful things that they do, that they practically start crying from being touched by their own goodness!!!

In Christ,
Alice

Old Rite faithful in Russia do not kiss icons.

[Panayota K.]

On the other hand, he said, (as an example of pride)--sometimes he gets people who come to confession and speak so much about the good and wonderful things that they do, that they practically start crying from being touched by their own goodness!!!

In Christ,
Alice

Someone said when confessing to his spiritual father that every time he practised a sort of ascesis he immediatelly had thoughts of pride about it. He feared to make a spiritual step forward because of the war he would have to face after and he asked his priest what to do to avoid those thoughts. The priest looked at him and answered "You feel pride for what? Ascesis is what you owe to God and you do much less than you should."

Now that's a way of thinking that keeps me down to earth.


Panayota

[Alexander Zhdanov]

"A humble wisdom [smirennomudrie] is a constant humility of human mind before innocent and perfect mind of God which is in Jesus Christ " - St. Justin Popovich *

* Translation is mine :)

Bye,

Alexander

[Ilaria]

IThe boy said that he felt too unworthy to approach Christ in an icon and to kiss him.

This boy, "ordinary" as any of us, had put into practice the words of st. Symeon, the New Theologian: somewhere, he said something like that 'the one who humbles himself, does not dare to look at and touch the icons;he feels that because of his bad behavior even the icons get ashamed'

Sometimes, I feel breathless seeing how wonderful works the Grace of God!

[Alexander Zhdanov]

The holy Theodora was in the habit of telling her disciples very frequently how neither great asceticism, nor extremely hard work, nor any other sufferings whatsoever can save a man as much as true humility of the heart. She also related the following anecdote:

A certain hermit had a gift from God to cast out evil spirits. One time he asked to learn what they feared most and what compelled them to flee.

"Perhaps it is fasting?" he asked one of them.

"We," the evil spirit replied, "neither ever eat nor ever drink."

"Sleepless vigils, then?"

"We do not sleep at all."

"Flight from the world?"

"Supposedly an important thing. But we spend the greater part of our time wandering around the deserts."

"I implore you to confess what it is that can subdue you," insisted the elder.

The evil spirit, compelled by a supernatural force, was pressed to answer: "Humility - which we can never overcome."

[Michael Woods]

St. Basil the Great says, "But a man who has attained to true humility will not be troubled by offensive or ignominious words, since he is already aware of his own great unworthiness even before he is insulted."

[Anna Stickles]

Complete trust in God --that's what holy humility is. Complete obedience to God, without protest, without reaction, even when some things seem difficult and unreasonable. Abandonment to the hands of God. The words we repeat during the Divine Liturgy say it all: "Let us commend our whole life to Christ our God." ... To You O, Lord we leave everything. That is what trust in God is. This is holy humility. This is what transfigures a person and makes him a 'God-man'.

The humble person is conscious of his inner state and, however unsightly it is, he does not lose his personality. he know he is sinful and is grieved by the fact, but he does not despair and does not annihilate himself. The person possessed of holy humility does...not react. He accepts to be criticized and rebuked by others, without getting angry and defending himself. he does not lose his equilibrium. The opposite happens with the egotist, the person who has a sense of inferiority. To begin with he seems to be humble, but if he is goaded a little, he immediately loses his calm and is irritated or upset.

...If you have love for your neighbor and love for God, God will give you humility and bestow on you sanctification. If you do not have love for God and for your neighbor, and if you are indolent, Satan will tyrannize you, your old self will take revenge on you, and you fill find fault with everyone and everything and be forever complaining. ...

Feigned humility is also demonic. It's what's called an inferiority complex. true humility doesn't speak and doesn't make a show of humility. It doesn't say for example, "I am a sinner an unworthy and the very least of men..." The humble person fears that such words may lead him to fall into vanity. The grace of God does not approach here. On the contrary, the grace of God is to be found where there is true humility, divine humility, perfect trust in God, total dependence on Him. Elder Propyrious, Wounded by Love, p 152-3
I hope no one minds this is so long but it's so beautiful I had trouble deciding where to cut it off.

[Owen Jones]

Thanks to all for your comments on humility. I thought it would be a good idea to start off the new year reading through this thread. I don't want to add anything other than my gratitude.

[Rick H.]

Thanks to all for your comments on humility. I thought it would be a good idea to start off the new year reading through this thread. I don't want to add anything other than my gratitude.


I just want to share that after reading this post (even though it really didn't say anything), it really had a profound impact on me. It caused me to realize that my posts on monachos really don't have much to do with humility, as well this caused me to realize that there is not really much at all that is humble about me period. So, I guess I am saying thanks as well.

[Evan]

It was suggested earlier in this thread that one ought not to defend oneself from slander. How do we reconcile this with the fact that such "humble" gestures as that performed by the saint who paid the sum to the prostitute might well have the effect of scandalizing others?

For instance: Imagine, for example, that a Metropolitan is sued respecting conduct that appalls the conscience of all who hear of it. He is in fact not guilty of any such sin, and he can prove it in court, but he instead reaches a civil settlement with the aggrieved party.

I think in this context there's something to be said for defending oneself.

[Owen Jones]

Everything about the spiritual life is paradoxical.

[Peter S.]

All good things comes from God.

[Peter S.]

Keep that in mind and you are protected from pride. But that is hard work.

Peter
In Christ

[Andreas Moran]

Acceptance of God's will is a sure sign of humility - 'Thy will be done'.

[Olympiada]

Yes, but how are we to know what God's will is? I've heard it said to be very careful assuming we know what God's will is... Now on a different angle, some say humiliation is not humility, but I venture to say that humiliation can lead to humility. What do you think?

[Father David Moser]

Yes, but how are we to know what God's will is?

In this case, the reference is that humility is to accept all that comes to us (whether pleasant or unpleasant) as though it were from God and to endure all things without complaint. This is a very clear theme throughout many of the ascetic fathers.

Fr David Moser

[Andreas Moran]

Father David has said what I meant behind my post. We don't have to know God's will to accept what befalls us.

[Lourens]

....some say humiliation is not humility, but I venture to say that humiliation can lead to humility. What do you think?

Humiliation addresses pride in a forceful way, so that we may grow in humility.

Pride goes before the fall ----- God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble. Those who exalt themselves will be humbled.

It's as simple as that.

[Olympiada]

Humiliation addresses pride in a forceful way, so that we may grow in humility.

Pride goes before the fall ----- God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble. Those who exalt themselves will be humbled.

It's as simple as that.
Br Lourens, I don't think its as simple as that. We live in a fallen world, where there are evil and wicked people. Why do you think it says in the beatitudes "blessed are you when men shall revile you and persecute you for my name's sake"? Does that mean that all those who are reviled and persecuted are proud? What about the saints who were brutally tortured in all kinds of humiliating ways? Were they proud? The scriptures are full of references to wicked men...

[Anna Stickles]

Humiliation addresses pride in a forceful way, so that we may grow in humility..

I kind of like this. There is also a lot in the ascetical literature that tells us to be thankful for humiliation, although no doubt it is better to force ourselves to be humble in the first place then to have to be humbled. I suppose praying for humility is just as dangerous as praying for patience, and just as beneficial. :-)

[Andreas Moran]

A friend of mine has a prayer for patience: 'O, God, give me patience - quickly!'

[Jason H.]

"...it perceives that no one can become a true Christian unless he gives himself up completely to the cross in a spirit of *humility* and self-denial, and makes himself lower than all, letting himself be trmapled underfoot, insulted, despised, wronnged, ridiculed and mocked; and all this he must endure joyfully for the Lord's sake..."--St. Mark the Ascetic

"Dispassion and humility lead to spiritual knowledge. Without them, no one can see God."--St. Maximos the Confessor

"Humility bestows complete repose upon whoever possesses it in his heart, becuase he has Christ dwelling within him."--St. Peter Damaskos

"Humility is hard to acquire, and the deeper it is, the gretaer the struggle needed to gain it."--St. Diadochos of Photki

"The Lord dwells in the souls of the humble...Hence humility is rightly called the executioner of passions."--St. Theodoros

[Peter S.]

Acceptance of God's will is a sure sign of humility - 'Thy will be done'.

Yes, and to pray for deliverance of evil (sin, devil, death).

"...lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil."

Amen

[Grace Singh]

Yes, but how are we to know what God's will is?

i would add that we should also compare the options available to us with God's Word. for example, God is not going to will and rejoice in a believer sinning knowingly.

i've heard Christians say things like "it was the will of the Lord for her to live with him, even though he's not a believer and they are not married". truly? God can use mistakes for His glory, but allowing ourselves to do wrong and calling it God's will for our lives sounds like a poor excuse.

we may not be able to see the road ahead of us, but it is always wise to proceed with humble prayer, and an eye on doing what is Godly, and good.

[Alice]

"You must kill egoism. If you don't kill it yourself, then the Lord, hammer-blow after hammer-blow, shall send various misfortunes, so as to crush this stone."

St. Feofan Zatvornik

[Sacha]

"You must kill egoism. If you don't kill it yourself, then the Lord, hammer-blow after hammer-blow, shall send various misfortunes, so as to crush this stone."

St. Feofan Zatvornik

Is humility entirely of ourselves, entirely of God, or part of ourselves and part of God?

Many thanks for your thoughts/teaching,
Sacha

[Herman Blaydoe]

Humility is mostly not self-aware so it really, by definition, cannot be entirely "of ourselves". We can only work to be receptive to the gift, because we can do nothing "of ourselves" but only through Christ the Lord. We can work to empty ourselves, but only Christ can fill us up.

Or so it seems to this bear of little brain,
Herman the Pooh

[Michael Woods]

'According to Saint Mark the Monk ("Mark the Ascetic," fifth/sixth century), "He who is humble in his thoughts and engaged in spiritual work, when he reads the Holy Scriptures, will apply everything to himself and not to his neighbor."

[Andreas Moran]

I'm so humble I won't add anything more to this thread!

[Archimandrite Irenei]

Andrea, your comment reminds me of the legendary university entrance essay, wherein the candidate self-effacingly proclaimed, 'The thing I am most proud of is my humility'.

INXC, Fr Irenei

[Jason H.]

"Strive above all to acquire humility...Humility is understanding yourself and everything about yourself as being nothing...Where there is humility, the glory of God shines forth...Humility is the foundation of Christianity."---Abbot Nazarius, Little Russian Philokalia, pg 91

[Nina]

I'm so humble I won't add anything more to this thread!

You are not more humble than I. I never participated here. :P

[Michael Woods]

I like this verse. Know matter how old one gets, this verse can keep you young.

"Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble." 1 Peter 5:5.

[Vasiliki D.]

Strive to cultivate a deep humility and the malice of the demons shall not touch your soul. Then the plague shall not approach your dwelling for "he has given his angels the command to watch over you" (Ps. 90:11) and to drive away from you, invisibly, every hostile force. - Note #96, Chapters on Prayer, Evagrius Ponticus.

[Panayota K.]

I like this verse. Know matter how old one gets, this verse can keep you young.

"Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble." 1 Peter 5:5.

I agree, unless you grow to be "older" than the elders. Then things can get a little blurry..

[Mark Harris]

I wish people would use some humility when they get behind the wheel of a car. This is where I find it the most hardest . (it also seems to be even some of the monks I have seen when they are behind the wheel!).

[Anna Stickles]

"Apparently what I had mistaken for humility had, all these years. prevented me from understanding what is in fact the humblest, the most childlike, the most creaturely of pleasures—nay, the specific pleasure of the inferior: the pleasure a beast before men, a child before its father, a pupil before his teacher, a creature before its Creator. I am not forgetting how horribly this most innocent desire is parodied in our human ambitions, or how very quickly, in my own experience, the lawful pleasure of praise from those whom it was my duty to please turns into the deadly poison of self-admiration. But I thought I could detect a moment—a very, very short moment—before this happened, during which the satisfaction of having pleased those whom I rightly loved and rightly feared was pure. And that is enough to raise our thoughts to what may happen when the redeemed soul, beyond all hope and nearly beyond belief, learns at last that she has pleased Him whom she was created to please. There will be no room for vanity then. She will be free from the miserable illusion that it is her doing. With no taint of what we should now call self-approval she will most innocently rejoice in the thing that God has made her to be, and the moment which heals her old inferiority complex for ever will also drown her pride deeper than Prospero’s book." C.S. Lewis