Monastery's acceptance of people from different nationalities?

[J. K. Amra]

Sorry for so many questions regarding monasticism, but will there be a sort of "conflict of interest" when a person (for example) wants to join a Greek Orthodox monastery and he/she is not Greek nor does that person speak Greek? Also, is it necessary to first be a layperson within the Church and gain experience from that before a monastery can accept you as a novice?

(taking into account that the language barrier is only temporary)

Thank you and Happy Holidays!

[Eric Peterson]

Everything depends on the individual monastery and how well you fit/do not fit in there. That is why it is important to visit and form relationships.

[Herman Blaydoe]

Sorry for so many questions regarding monasticism, but will there be a sort of "conflict of interest" when a person (for example) wants to join a Greek Orthodox monastery and he/she is not Greek nor does that person speak Greek? Also, is it necessary to first be a layperson within the Church and gain experience from that before a monastery can accept you as a novice?

(taking into account that the language barrier is only temporary)

Thank you and Happy Holidays!

There is no conflict of interest, but going to a monastery where all the services are in a language you do not understand can be challenging, not to mention missing out on all the beautiful hymnography until such time as you learn that language. But learning a new language is always a good thing and "total immersion" is the best way to learn it. I know of people who have done this.

The best way to find out is to visit the monastery in question and talk with the abbot. He will let you know if there is any problem with "outsiders" (probably not) and their willingness and ability to devote time and resources to teaching you Greek.

Herman

[Cyprian (Humphrey)]

Well, I think the phrase "conflict of interest" is completely inappropriate, as that would imply that monasteries would have a xenophobic interest in keeping people of different cultures out, which they most certainly do not! No monastery would have a desire to exclude anyone based on nationality or language. Such a thing is soundly condemned, not only in the Church's canons, but also scripture - remember the whole "there is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free..." stuff? Theology, yes, we discriminate against heresy, but not race, language, or culture. Any monastery that would kick someone out because they aren't (Greek/Russian/Elbonian/whatever) enough is not a Christian one.

But as for just rocking up on the doorstep of a monastery and wanting to join, well slow down there tiger. It doesn't happen like that.

It would be necessary for one to be an Orthodox layperson first. Now, there MAY be situations where a person does not have the ability to convert "officially" before going to a monastery (eg. one lives in a town or village that doesn't have an Orthodox Church). One COULD be baptized and chrismated at a monastery. But, even in those cases, becoming Orthodox is dealt with long before one deals with monasticism. Don't put the cart in front of the horse. Become Orthodox first.

With regards to being accepted as a novice, different monasteries will have different criteria, although they not greatly different. Generally the first thing is being an Orthodox Christian in good standing (ie. regular attendee and communicant). Then there should be no family ties (no under-age children requiring either looking after, or child support payments), or debts.

Then there is sometimes screening for persons with psychological issues. This should probably be more common than it is, in my opinion. However, this isn't to keep out everyone who has psych problems. Who doesn't have issues of one sort or another? No one. This is to help identify the issues the person has to help them better.

However, there may be people that may be beyond a particular community's ability to help. A monastic community is going to find dealing with someone who is a paranoid schizophrenic far more difficult than dealing with someone who has bouts of situational depression.

So, in short, one should be (1) an Orthodox Christian in good standing, (2) have no debts or family obligations, and (3) be relatively sane. Some monastery's may have further requirements, which aren't usually great obstacles, as long as one has the above three.

Please note though, my personal advice based on my personal experience is that going to a monastery that does services in a language you don't understand is an incredibly bad idea. It is an extremely boring experience, and it gives the evil one ample opportunity to tempt you in a multitude of ways. You don't need that. Either learn the language first, or go to a monastery that does services in a language you do understand (obviously English is one option, as you are posting here in English, but I don't presume to know whether you know any other language[s] or not).

Just my two kopecks. Hope that helps.

Fr Cyprian

[Paul Cowan]

Either learn the language first, or go to a monastery that does services in a language you do understand (obviously English is one option, as you are posting here in English, but I don't presume to know whether you know any other language[s] or not).

Just my two kopecks. Hope that helps.

Fr Cyprian

Fr. bless,

I don't think there are any monasteries that speak Texan, and besides those that Fr. Ephraim has established in the US are strictly Greek speaking. Of course I do not know them all, but the monastery in Essex is the only one I have heard of that speaks english. Foreign language was not my strong suit in school. Would I (provided I passed the mustard) ever be eligible for a nonenglish speaking monsatery? I understand immersion is the best way to learn, but I live in a city that is predominately hispanic and I can barely ask where the bano is. It seems my future dreams and aspirations may be nipped in the perverbial bud just because I can't ask where the bathroom is.

Paul

[Herman Blaydoe]

Fr. bless,

I don't think there are any monasteries that speak Texan, and besides those that Fr. Ephraim has established in the US are strictly Greek speaking. Of course I do not know them all, but the monastery in Essex is the only one I have heard of that speaks english. Foreign language was not my strong suit in school. Would I (provided I passed the mustard) ever be eligible for a nonenglish speaking monsatery? I understand immersion is the best way to learn, but I live in a city that is predominately hispanic and I can barely ask where the bano is. It seems my future dreams and aspirations may be nipped in the perverbial bud just because I can't ask where the bathroom is.

Paul

There are many Orthodox monasteries in the US that use English as the Liturgical language, and while the monasteries of Fr. Ephraim use Greek Liturgically, many, if not most, of the monastics speak English as well.

[Paul Cowan]

I'll need to check in to them in time. I was really hoping to go here (http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/Athos/Monastery/Agios%20Pavlos.html)or here (http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/Athos/Monastery/Agios%20Panteleimon.html) or even here (http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/Athos/Monastery/Iveron.html). Not that it is my decision. I don't mind working hard in complete silence.

Paul

[Cyprian (Humphrey)]

Well, monasteries on Mt Athos speak Greek because they are, very simply, in Greece.

To my knowledge Essex is multi-lingual.

In North America one could try (in no particular order):

The Monastery of St John, Manton, CA

The All-Merciful Saviour Monastery, Vashon Island, WA

Christ the Saviour Monastery, Hamilton, ON (Western Rite)

The Holy Cross Hermitage, Wayne, WVa

St Michael's Skete, Canones, NM

The Holy Transfiguration Skete, Gibsons, BC

St Herman of Alaska Monastery, Platina, CA

...and the list goes on...

These are all male monasteries, and I know they all use English.

There are many more. Google can be helpful.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Eastern_Orthodox_monasteries_in_the_United _States

A little bit of research, and maybe some time and effort, and I'm sure you could find one rather close to you that doesn't require mastering another language first.

And yes, all the monks at St Anthony's in Arizona speak English. They simply use Greek between themselves to avoid being drawn into conversation with the many "tourists" that come. They only speak English to each other when there are no visitors around. But, with all of their, admittedly beautiful, services in Greek, and even the Trapeza readings in Greek, I found it to be dangerously boring, simply because I didn't know the language. But, I stress, this was my personal experience, and others may find it different.

Just my two kopecks.

PS - I know of at least one dyed in the wool Texan in the Monastery of St John. He quite enjoys it there.

[Kusanagi]

I know that Fr Justin from St Catherine's monastery had a problem being accepted into that monastery because he was American and didn't speak Greek. But he learnt Greek and went through a lot of trials before being accepted.

Or if you are bold you can follow what lots of Irish monks did when they moved into Briton, which was to follow the Patriarch Abraham's example.

[J. K. Amra]

Does anyone know anything about the Holy Ascention monastery in Bakersfield NY? I have yet to call a father in Astoria NY to ask him about it. Probably will do so this week.

[Paul Cowan]

Or if you are bold you can follow what lots of Irish monks did when they moved into Briton, which was to follow the Patriarch Abraham's example.

ummm, tie your kid to a pile of sticks and try to kill him? or give soured milk to a group of men? Or sleep with a mistress?

Which example would that be exactly?

[Michael Stickles]

Which example would that be exactly?

I believe he's thinking of "Leave your country, your people and your father's household and go to the land I will show you."

[Robin Elizabeth]

Fr. bless,

I don't think there are any monasteries that speak Texan, and besides those that Fr. Ephraim has established in the US are strictly Greek speaking. Of course I do not know them all, but the monastery in Essex is the only one I have heard of that speaks english. Foreign language was not my strong suit in school. Would I (provided I passed the mustard) ever be eligible for a nonenglish speaking monsatery? I understand immersion is the best way to learn, but I live in a city that is predominately hispanic and I can barely ask where the bano is. It seems my future dreams and aspirations may be nipped in the perverbial bud just because I can't ask where the bathroom is.

Paul

I too am bad at languages, except English, and it's proving to be a stumbling block for me at some monasteries. I've found that monasteries will require you to have at least a working knowledge of the language they use primarily. Not that you have to be fluent, but you would have to pick it up within a reasonable time period after you are there. Also, you would have to be able to communicate with the Abbot, who would be your spiritual father. It's different than if you're just visiting.

[Kosta]

If your in the NY area you may want to try the Monastery of the Holy Cross in Setauket Long Island. Its under Jerusalem and usually services done in english unless a greek bishop visits. I know there having some financial difficulties as they recently ran out of heating oil and were seeking donations

Residence of the Representative of The Patriarchate of Jerusalem
Monastery of the Holy Cross
140 Main Street
East Setauket, NY 11733
Archbishop Damaskinos,
Patriarchal Epitropos
Archimandrite Maximos
Bishop: 631 751-4390
Bishop: 631 902-4910 (mobile)
Monastery: 631 246-9020
Abbot: 770 401-4600 (mobile)

[J. K. Amra]

Hi Kosta, thank you for telling me about it, I will definately send a donation and give them a call. Once again, thanks.