Orthodox meaning of the word "symbol"

[Anthony G. Peggs]

Hello all,

Christ is Born!

so i am a little confused regarding the Orthodox meaning of the word symbol. coming from a protestant backround, before i converted to The Holy Orthodox Church, symbol in the protestant churches meant something that merely reminds of something else, or points to a reality, but isn't the reality itself.

i know in The Orthodox Church we say that symbol IS the reality, my Priest has told me this as well........yet i'm still a little lost. i just want to know, in the simplest way possible (because i'm really not that smart) what do we mean whenever we say symbol?

i specifically ask this in reference to the Eucharist. i know we believe that The bread and wine become the actual Body and actual Blood of Christ. therefore what is the TRUE meaning of symbol, esp. since we know the bread and wine are the real Body and real Blood of Christ?

please help me to understand.

anthony

[Seda S.]

i specifically ask this in reference to the Eucharist. i know we believe that The bread and wine become the actual Body and actual Blood of Christ. therefore what is the TRUE meaning of symbol, esp. since we know the bread and wine are the real Body and real Blood of Christ?

anthony

Dear Anthony

As far as I know, the word 'symbol' (symbolon) when used for the Eucharist means the same as the Latin (also English) word 'species'.

[Alex Haig]

If we look at the opposite of symbolism we get diabolism: that is the opposite of a symbol is of the devil. Symbolism brings unity to that which was divided, Diabolism separates that which was united.

Humanity has being symbolising from the beginning: by naming the animals (see Genesis 2:19), Adam made a symbol by uniting a name with an object. As an aside, this giving of a name, this symbolising, is a priestly function of humanity in creation.

We have other types of symbol, for example seeing the burning bush (see Exodus 3) as an image (type, symbol) of the Theotokos. Symbols are used in other fields too: lawyers looking at previous cases where the events are similar is a type of symbol.

We turn then to the use of symbols in the Church. The Creed is often referred to as The Symbol of Faith, that which expresses and stands for the Faith of the Church. It is not the complete revelation of Faith on its own, many heresies have attacked the Church since its composition, but is a symbol of it; an icon, likewise, is a symbol of the person it depicts and a cross is the symbol of the Cross of Christ.

When it comes to the Eucharist though, I would be hesitant to solely use the ideas of symbol by themselves. The iconoclasts stated that the Eucharist was the only true icon of God to which the iconodules asked if the Eucharist were simply an image, that is a symbol. The Eucharist, I would say, is not a symbol of the Body and Blood of Christ but is in actual reality His Body and Blood.

With love in Christ

Alex

[D. W. Dickens]

It is easy to think of a "symbol" in abstracted terms. We have been taught in school that a name of a thing is not the thing, but merely a reference to it. This is a sort of subtle Neo-Platonism. People like to ask silly questions like "what is *dog-ness* and how much could we mutilate a dog (removing limbs etc) before it isn't a dog anymore". People will even go so far as to say that something is "holy" only because we call it so. We have diabolized the world.

Men and women are symbolized in marriage. Your name given to you in baptism is also joined with you. You and it no longer have separate constituencies. A symbol of something is joined to the something it is a symbol of. They are no longer discrete things.

Children and the most poor are symbols of Christ ("As you do to the least of these, you do also to me") They are joined to Christ mystically.

[Paul Cowan]

Hello all,

Christ is Born!

so i am a little confused regarding the Orthodox meaning of the word symbol. coming from a protestant backround, before i converted to The Holy Orthodox Church, symbol in the protestant churches meant something that merely reminds of something else, or points to a reality, but isn't the reality itself.

i know in The Orthodox Church we say that symbol IS the reality, my Priest has told me this as well........yet i'm still a little lost. i just want to know, in the simplest way possible (because i'm really not that smart) what do we mean whenever we say symbol?

i specifically ask this in reference to the Eucharist. i know we believe that The bread and wine become the actual Body and actual Blood of Christ. therefore what is the TRUE meaning of symbol, esp. since we know the bread and wine are the real Body and real Blood of Christ?

please help me to understand.

anthony

Hi Anthony,

Here is a thread you might find useful to your symbolism (http://www.monachos.net/forum/showthread.php?4515-Symbolism-in-the-services&highlight=symbolism) questions. It is 6 pages of good stuff.

Paul

[Francis Marion]

Mr Haig,

Eriudite and beyond your years in so many ways. Icons ar NOT symbols. Until you read 'Windows on the Kingdom', Michel Quenot- which is the BEST intro to icons please do not blaspheme further.

There is also an excellent article in the glossy Shouroz produced recently.

the Swamp Fox

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear Francis,

There is really no call for that kind of ad hominem comment. Especially when the point you are making in response is overstated. Icons are not wholly symbols; but they certainly are symbols. That something goes beyond the limitations of one expression, one category, does not mean it is not at all a part of it.

INXC, Dcn Matthew