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Tim Flanders
12-01-2010, 02:10 PM
Dear friends,

I have been speaking with a friend who is "Messianic Jewish" and who reads the OT and gets tripped up on the commands that God gives Moses "to keep the Sabbath as an everlasting covenant between him and his people." He says that God gave his people the Sabbath to "remember creation and the exodus." To me, this was also a stumbling block before I came to Orthodoxy (I was a Messianic Jew before Orthodoxy, that was my last stop). I have heard about the "8th day" and the Lord's Day in terms of the New Creation, but the thing is the Messianic Jews read the Apostolic fathers and find them to be "anti-semetic" because they are (apparently) all against Sabbath keeping. My question is this: what is the meaning of the Sabbath, why does the Church not ordain it to rest? Does the Church ordain Sunday to rest? How does the Church understand the 3rd commandment? What were the Apostolic fathers actually speaking about? And why is the OT full of references to the importance of the Sabbath and keeping it eternally?

Nina
12-01-2010, 06:33 PM
Noooo. No Orthodox Father/Saint is anti-Semitic. Saints of Orthodoxy have such a love in their heart for *all* the people of the world without discrimination. When they speak the truth this does not mean they are anti-some-people. For instance when they reprimand us Orthodox to be better Christians and so on, this does not mean that they are anti-Orthodox.

You have many Qs and I do not know if I can reply all of them but here is a quote and you maybe can find some of the the answers you are looking for. :)

By Elder Cleopa - The truth of our Faith - On keeping the Lord's Feast on Sunday instead of Saturday, pp.169-171


From Adam until the death of Abraham, according to certain chronologies, 3,678 years passed, to which must be added the 403 years in which the Jews were captive in Egypt, totalling 4,108 years. During the period from Adam until Moses, neither were the Scriptures written nor Saturday observed as a feast day by any race of people. For so many thousands of years the patriarchs and faithful of God were guided along the path of salvation only by the Holy Traditiion. Finally, after so long a time, as the Israelites were passing through the desert of Arabia, God blessed the Sabbath day in commemoration of the creation of the world in seven days - on the seventh day of which God rested - and of the exodus of His people from the slavery of Egypt. Holy Scripture recounts these events as follows: "And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made." Gen. 2:3 Elsewhere, in reference to the exodus of the Israelites from Egypt, it is written: "And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a streched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the Sabath day." Dt. 5:15

Yet, nevertheless, it should be well understood that the Sabath was not given by God as an obligatory feast for all the people of the world, but was sanctioned as a feast and eternal agreement only for His people Israel. Holy Scripture makes this clear: "Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between me and the children of Israel forever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed." Ex. 31:16-17

In another passage, Holy Scripture shows us also that the Sabbath and all the other commandments of the Law were given to Israel alone: "He declareth His word unto Jacob, His statues and judgments to Israel. He hath not dealt so with every nation, nor hath He shown His judgments unto them." Ps. 147: 8-9 In other words, to the unbelieving nations that did not descent from the race of Jacob and its commandments, God did not appear. One of this commandments included the commandments concerning the Sabbath. When the idol worshipers came to Nehemiah wanting to take part in the building of the temple, he told them: "The God of Heaven, he will prosper us; therefore we his servants will arise and build: but ye have no portion, nor right, nor memorial, in Jerusalem." Neh. 2:20 If the idol worshippers had kept the Sabbath, would Nehemiah have had the right to speak to them in that way? The idol worshippers could have answered him that they, too, have the Sabbath as a sign of covenant with God just like the Israelites. To the contrary, however, Nehemiah states clearly and firmly that they have no place or right in Jerusalem.To be continued.

Andrew G.
13-01-2010, 06:37 AM
Dear friends,

I have been speaking with a friend who is "Messianic Jewish" and who reads the OT and gets tripped up on the commands that God gives Moses "to keep the Sabbath as an everlasting covenant between him and his people." He says that God gave his people the Sabbath to "remember creation and the exodus." To me, this was also a stumbling block before I came to Orthodoxy (I was a Messianic Jew before Orthodoxy, that was my last stop). I have heard about the "8th day" and the Lord's Day in terms of the New Creation, but the thing is the Messianic Jews read the Apostolic fathers and find them to be "anti-semetic" because they are (apparently) all against Sabbath keeping. My question is this: what is the meaning of the Sabbath, why does the Church not ordain it to rest? Does the Church ordain Sunday to rest? How does the Church understand the 3rd commandment? What were the Apostolic fathers actually speaking about? And why is the OT full of references to the importance of the Sabbath and keeping it eternally?

The Sabbath was part of the Law of Moses. Since Christ came and fulfilled the law, we are no longer under the law as St. Paul has said in his epistles. "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law" (Gal 3:13). That is the same reason why we Christians do not keep the Jewish dietary laws, the cleanliness aspects and others. As St. James said at the Apostolic council in Acts 15 that the Gentiles should not follow the law, except for drinking blood, praying to idols, and fornication. This is the same reason why we do not celebrate passover and other Jewish feast days, but we replace them with Christian ones, such as Pascha replacing Passover.
In response to how we understand the 3rd commandment: We have to remember that the 10 commandments are part of the law of Moses. The new Christian commandments are the 9 Beatitudes, which are a higher version of the Law... commandments full of grace.

Tim Flanders
13-01-2010, 01:03 PM
What then, do Jews who are Orthodox Christians do? Do they follow the Sabbath keeping?
And what of our Lord's saying in his sermon on the mount? That not one letter of the Law would pass away until everything was fulfilled, that he came not to destroy but to fulfill?

Thank you for your repsonse,


Tim

Herman Blaydoe
13-01-2010, 02:38 PM
I would suspect that "Orthodox (Christian)" Jews would indeed observe the Sabbath and dietary laws like the Apostles did, but not being one myself, I would not want to be seen as levying such a requirement upon them.

Christ said the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath. And Christ did fulfil the Law, therefore it is not the the Law, but Christ who fulfils the Law that we follow.

Brian Patrick Mitchell
13-01-2010, 03:09 PM
Jews who become Orthodox Christians have no special status within the Church and adopt the life that all Orthodox Christians live. They enter the Church not as the Apostles did (as the faithful remnant or living root that kept the faith until the coming of Christ) but as once dead branches that are again grafted back into the Tree, just as the Gentiles are. Once united to Christ, they cease to be Jews in the religious sense and remain Jews only in the accidental, culturual sense. (For example, I am still an American by accident of birth and cultural habit, but my Americanism means nothing within the Church.) In Christian understanding, the Church is the new Israel and all who are outside it are Gentiles.

More in a moment.

Brian Patrick Mitchell
13-01-2010, 03:23 PM
When we say that Christ fulfills and does not destroy the Law, we mean that Christ reveals what the Law was really all about, enabling us to see the truth about good and evil and therefore to tell what parts of the Law still pertain and what parts no longer pertain, having ceased to serve their merely temporary, tutelary purpose. It took the Church some time to sort everything out, but that work is fairly well now complete. In Acts 15, we see the Church taking the first step in the process, discarding circumcision in particular and imposing on the Gentiles only a handful of probitions representing (IMHO) three categories of sins: (1) things like fornication that are inherently sinful and therefore always forbidden, (2) things like drinking blood that are disgusting and unseemly and should be avoided, and (3) things like eating meat sacrificed to idols, which is harmless in-and-of itself but which may send the wrong message to others and cause them to stumble.

More yet still in a moment.

Brian Patrick Mitchell
13-01-2010, 03:32 PM
Keeping the Sabbath in remembrance of creation and the Exodus does not fall into any of these three categories. Like circumcision, it has ceased to serve its tutelary purpose and is no longer relevant, because the "Eighth Day" -- the Day of Resurrection -- has superseded it. On the Eighth Day, Christians celebrate our "new creation" in Christ and our exodus from sin and death through Him. They remember the seventh day as the day He lay in the tomb and observe it by commemorating those who have fallen asleep in Christ.

In Christ, Dn. Patrick

Fr Raphael Vereshack
13-01-2010, 03:48 PM
Tim Flanders wrote:


What then, do Jews who are Orthodox Christians do? Do they follow the Sabbath keeping?
And what of our Lord's saying in his sermon on the mount? That not one letter of the Law would pass away until everything was fulfilled, that he came not to destroy but to fulfill?

It should be kept in mind that Orthodoxy in North America already has experience from the past few decades of practicing & secularized Jews converting.

The overall practice then is that such converts follow the piety already established in the Orthodox Church at large. In other words for example within Orthodoxy the old Sabbath is still marked on Saturday but in a new way (many of us are not aware that Saturday has its own cycle of Scripture readings and particular way of doing the services. This is brought out especially in the services of Holy Saturday and the service texts for that day). This is in connection of course with Sunday which is the day of the resurrection and the 8th day or culmination of time.

We should be aware though that this comes from how the Church saw itself in relation to Judaism. Here the Church has not 'abolished' Judaism but rather fulfilled it. In other words Christ through the Church reveals the actual point that Judaism aims for in its essence.

If I could though also refer to Fr Dn Brian Patrick Mitchell's comments below:


Once united to Christ, they cease to be Jews in the religious sense and remain Jews only in the accidental, culturual sense. (For example, I am still an American by accident of birth and cultural habit, but my Americanism means nothing within the Church.)

I know that this takes us in the direction of the Church/culture discussion. But from what I have seen most everyone does bring their culture to the Church. Of course such cultural values cannot become the governing values for us as Orthodox Christians. But yet they still continue to have an influential role. This after all is how each autocephalous church has its own distinct character.

I would think then that Jews (and that's a very broad term for a very broad set of perspectives & practices) along with a genuine conversion also bring part of their own formation & perspective, 'what they are' to the Faith.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

Nina
13-01-2010, 04:38 PM
Here the Church has not 'abolished' Judaism but rather fulfilled it. In other words Christ through the Church reveals the actual point that Judaism aims for in its essence.
In Christ- Fr Raphael

This is the heart of the answer for this thread.

Brian Patrick Mitchell
13-01-2010, 05:05 PM
This is the heart of the answer for this thread.

True, if we define "Judaism" as the truly faithful worship of God according to the Law.

Fr Raphael Vereshack
14-01-2010, 03:23 PM
True, if we define "Judaism" as the truly faithful worship of God according to the Law.

Perhaps though in terms of this discussion it could be defined as taking that kernel of truth within Judaism and fulfilling it within the Church.

If there was nothing at all within Judaism which refers to the truth then there would be nothing to fulfill or complete. Complete rejection by the Church would be the only proper option.

But on the other hand if Judaism already represented the fullness of truth then there would be no need for completing it. The truth of the Church would stand equally alongside the truth of Judaism.

I think then that what St Paul continually expressed in his epistles concerning the Law applies in a similar way to what we bring personally to the Church especially when we convert.

Often there is something within us, from our background and from the path that we have been on, that seeks a fulfillment which can only be found within the Church. If this 'something within us' had no correspondence to the truth there would be nothing to fulfill. Then our entry into the Church would amount to an entire wiping away of what had gone before.

In this way then Christ always works with and indeed reveals to us that inner core of truth within each of us which can only find its fulfillment within the Church.

By the way the connection between St Paul's personal journey into Christ and his presentation of the relationship between the Law and the Church is too rarely commented on. St Paul's understanding of the Law obviously reflects the understanding gained from his own personal struggle to find Christ amidst where he had come from.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

Brian Patrick Mitchell
14-01-2010, 04:16 PM
I see your point, Father, and agree with you theologically, but semantically I believe that saying that Christ fulfills "Judaism" is problemmatic because the word Judaism lacks a clear and common meaning. Jews don't agree among themselves what Judaism is, neither do Christians agree among themselves what it is. Christians tend to think of Judaism as a religion, whereas for many Jews it is purely an ethnicity -- and one that does indeed reject the Church completely.

I have, in fact, misunderstood your use of the word, thinking that you were merely using "Judaism" in the place of "the Law," which is normally what we would say: Christ fulfills the Law. But apparently you were thinking of all current forms of "Judaism" that still contain some truth in them. Again, as you explain it, I don't disagree, but your initial statement required explanation to be understood, even by someone already so close to your understanding. You and I are very close in understanding, because your "kernel of truth" in Judaism would be my "truly faithful worship of God according to the Law." Both still require fulfillment in Christ.

In Christ, Dn. Patrick

Fr Raphael Vereshack
14-01-2010, 10:58 PM
Dear Fr Dn Patrick,

No- I think you're getting my meaning. I'm using these terms almost as synonyms. The Law though came into my mind especially in regards to St Paul since this is what he continually centers on in terms of his discussion of the Church & the Jews.

Often the Law is incorrectly characterized as amounting to legalism with Christianity as a 'free' counterpoint. This though would be to see Judaism as completely corrupt which of course St Paul certainly never did. Rather he saw the Law as a tutor that leads us to Christ. Here then is that 'kernel of truth' which I refer to.

Also the double movement I referred to before that left to itself the Law leads nowhere; but seen in terms of Christ it finds its fulfillment. The point for the early Church was that Judaism, Moses, the Law, etc were established by God to find their place within the Church.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

Brian Patrick Mitchell
15-01-2010, 03:30 PM
My point, Father, is that it would be better not to use "the Law" and "Judaism" synonymously. The Law was given by God to the Jews; "the religion of the Jews" (Gal. 1:13-14) is what the Jews made of the Law. Your use of "Judaism" confuses the two, whereas the witness of the Gospels is that a significant disparity existed between the Law and the religion of the Jews, necessitating the Law's fulfillment in Christ and the repudiation and replacement of the religion of the Jews by the Church of Christ. This is not to say that there was nothing good in the religion of the Jews, but that there was a lot bad which Christ Himself condemned and the early Church discarded.

In Christ, Dn. Patrick

Anna Stickles
16-01-2010, 02:03 AM
I was quite surprised when I came to Orthodoxy to start understanding that it is not merely the OT moral commandments that finds its fulfillment in Christ but the whole of the Jewish worship system. It was surprising to find how the Liturgy parallels the Jewish temple worship and that even this is fulfilled, not abandoned in the Church.

I am not sure how right it is to say that there is a problem with the religion of the Jews, especially as it was instituted by God, maybe it would be more right to say that there was a problem with how the Jews practiced and understood their own religion. After all, are we much better? I mean in the following passage can we not simply rewrite Rom 2 this way
Rom 2:17 Now you, if you call yourself an (Orthodox Christian); if you rely on (Tradition) and brag about your relationship to God; 18if you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by (Tradition); 19if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, 20an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of infants, because you have in (Tradition) the embodiment of knowledge and truth— 21you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself?
and we can go on through the whole chapter this way simply replacing "gentile" with non orthodox.

Brian Patrick Mitchell
16-01-2010, 05:31 PM
I am not sure how right it is to say that there is a problem with the religion of the Jews, especially as it was instituted by God, maybe it would be more right to say that there was a problem with how the Jews practiced and understood their own religion. After all, are we much better?

I must say, this is a rather odd place to take a discussion over what in the Law is still relevant to Orthodox Christians. There seems to be a considerable reluctance here to admit a central theme of the Gospels -- that the Jews were not keeping the Law as God intended -- as well as a conscious effort to obscure the distinction between the way God intended the Jews to worship and the way they actually did and still do. Of course, the Jews do stand in for all mankind as the type of fallen man, and so it is not entirely inappropriate for us, in reading about their failings, to reflect on our own. But we fail in our duty to uphold the truth and shed light upon the world if we reflexively cast the Jews in the best possible light and turn every criticism of them back upon ourselves.

In Christ, Dn. Patrick

Evan
16-01-2010, 05:57 PM
From what I've read of the Fathers, they seem to often speak of the Law as a bridle, intended to humble and constrain a people who, if left to their own devices, would quickly lapse into idolatry.

From St. John Chrysostom's commentary on Romans:

For the Law made nothing perfect. What is, make nothing perfect? Made no man perfect, being disobeyed. And besides, even if it had been listened to, it would not have made one perfect and virtuous. But as yet he does not say this here, but that it had no strength: and with good reason. For written precepts were there set down, Do this and Do not that, being enjoined only, and not giving power within. But the Hope is not such.

What is a disannulling? A casting out. A disannulling is a disannulling of things which are of force. So that he implied, that it once was of force, but henceforward was of no account, since it accomplished nothing. Was the Law then of no use? It was indeed of use; and of great use: but to make men perfect it was of no use. For in this respect he says, The Law made nothing perfect. All were figures, all shadows; circumcision sacrifice, Sabbath. Therefore they could not reach through the soul, wherefore they pass away and gradually withdraw. But the bringing in of a better hope did, by which we draw near unto God.

Brian Patrick Mitchell
16-01-2010, 06:33 PM
From what I've read of the Fathers, they seem to often speak of the Law as a bridle, intended to humble and constrain a people who, if left to their own devices, would quickly lapse into idolatry.

Yes, and thank you, Evan, for the quotation. In speaking of the Law as the way God intended the Jews to worship, I mean that the Law was given for the tutelary purpose of teaching them to worship "in spirit and in truth." (John 4:23-24) Part of the way it did so was to lay down simple rules of behavior, but another part of the way was to load them with rules to show them that they couldn't keep them and therefore must always rely on His mercy and seek the deeper meaning of the Law. I hope I haven't confused things.

In Christ, Dn. Patrick

Brian Patrick Mitchell
16-01-2010, 06:56 PM
... another part of the way was to load them with rules to show them that they couldn't keep them and therefore must always rely on His mercy and seek the deeper meaning of the Law.

I should add that this objective of the Law (begging God's mercy and seeking its deeper meaning) was intended to prepare them to receive Christ when He appeared and fulfilled the Law.

Evan
16-01-2010, 09:00 PM
Yes, and thank you, Evan, for the quotation. In speaking of the Law as the way God intended the Jews to worship, I mean that the Law was given for the tutelary purpose of teaching them to worship "in spirit and in truth." (John 4:23-24) Part of the way it did so was to lay down simple rules of behavior, but another part of the way was to load them with rules to show them that they couldn't keep them and therefore must always rely on His mercy and seek the deeper meaning of the Law. I hope I haven't confused things.

In Christ, Dn. Patrick

Father, bless:

No, you haven't confused things at all! I offered that passage because it has greatly helped my understanding of what the Law was "for." Chrysostom seems to assert that the Law wasn't (Lord forgive me) a failed experiment-- it wasn't intended to save. It was intended to bridle a stubborn people that lapsed into idolatry at every opportunity, keep them from utter and complete apostasy and make them aware of how wretched they were when they attempted to "impress" God by purely earthly modes of worship that followed the letter but did not bespeak love for and faith in He who delivered them.


In Christ, Evan

Anna Stickles
16-01-2010, 10:27 PM
Thanks Evan, yes this quote was helpful.

Well this is probably off topic, but we had our house blessed yesterday and I was thinking that I am glad that we sanctify things with water in the Church and not with blood like the Jews did in the temple worship. Yikes! what a mess that would make. :-)

Certainly one of the main themes in Paul is that the New Covenant is universal and is no longer restricted to the Jews and the temple.

Fr Raphael Vereshack
18-01-2010, 12:08 AM
Anna Stickles wrote:


Well this is probably off topic, but we had our house blessed yesterday and I was thinking that I am glad that we sanctify things with water in the Church and not with blood like the Jews did in the temple worship. Yikes! what a mess that would make. :-)


Hmmm. Sometimes parishioners will ask that the priest not `mess up`a valuable painting while sprinkling the house with holy water. (my sprinkling is more like dousing though). Imagine if we used blood though instead of holy water!


In Christ- Fr Raphael

Andreas Moran
27-01-2010, 12:51 PM
Hmmm. Sometimes parishioners will ask that the priest not `mess up`a valuable painting while sprinkling the house with holy water. (my sprinkling is more like dousing though). Imagine if we used blood though instead of holy water!
In Christ- Fr Raphael

And - blood from what and how to get it! And what would the neighbours think? When Muslims started to arrive here in numbers, some of them started letting the blood from animals - in their back yards! The public health authorities soon stepped in and stopped that.

Sean M.
25-03-2010, 12:28 PM
Thanks Evan, yes this quote was helpful.

Well this is probably off topic, but we had our house blessed yesterday and I was thinking that I am glad that we sanctify things with water in the Church and not with blood like the Jews did in the temple worship. Yikes! what a mess that would make. :-)

Certainly one of the main themes in Paul is that the New Covenant is universal and is no longer restricted to the Jews and the temple.

Jews actually had something similar to baptism in the mikveh for ritual purity.

Regarding christians obligations during Sundays and holy days of obligation, the Catholic Catechism states, "On Sundays and other holy days of obligation, the faithful are to refrain from engaging in work or activities that hinder the worship owed to God." I suspect the Orthodox position is the same.

Also because Christ died on Friday, descended into Sheol to release the captives and was resurrected on Sunday(when his work was done), it seems fitting that Sunday would be the new day of worship under the New Covenant.

Alexander Vernet
15-07-2010, 06:42 PM
One of the confusing things to me (a 'Jewish' Orthodox Christian) is that the New Testament seems to indicate that the decision to not require circumcision, etc. really refers to the Gentile believers coming into the Ecclesia, NOT the Jewish Christians. The very fact that there was a question of whether or not the Gentiles would have to first become observers of the Law in order to be Christians demonstrates that the Jewish Christians both upheld the Law and were fully Orthodox.

It is important to note that we believe that several important Pharisaic figures, such as Rabbi Gamaliel, became Orthodox Christians, and yet there is no indication (that I am aware of ) that they ceased practicing Torah.

I think that there is another confusion concerning the meaning of the 'tutelary' nature of the Law which leads us to Christ. I understand St. Paul (in conjunction w/ St. James) to be refering to the stages of theosis. That is to say, the Law, the physical keeping of the commandments, is essential as part of the first stage which leads into the Law of illumination and finally perfection (Christ). This is what St. Paul refers to when he speaks of casting off 'childish things'.

The Jewish way of life places a heavy emphasis on actions as a means to purification and knowledge of God (it is possible to envision Judaism even without any afterlife, etc.), but theosis moves beyond this to a level at which, once our hearts are purified, we obtain knowledge of God not primarily through the carrying out of commandments, but through communion in the Holy Spirit, at which point our natures are restored.

At that point, the spiritual truth contained in the commandment (and internalized at the stage of purification by the actual carrying out of it) transcends the material expression of itself and is imparted spiritually. This is because at that point, man regains his self identity as a primarily spiritual being, dependent upon God for Life and Wisdom, whereas in the fallen world we identify as primarily material (Adam and Eve tried to obtain wisdom from a created object, shifting their identity from primarily spiritual to material)

There is actually a minority Jewish opinion to this effect. That is to say, the Torah, the wisdom of God, is spiritual by nature, but when we fell God desired to impart it to His people in a material form (i.e. good works, sabbath, kashrut) but that once our natures are redeemed, so is the manner in which we receive Divine Wisdom and the Torah returns to its spiritual nature, at which point things such as circumcision of the flesh give way completely to their spiritual realities. To clarify, this is not to say that the spiritual reality is in contrast to the physical carrying out of the commandments - merely that in the path of theosis, the physical is completely transcended b/c we obtain knowledge of God by becoming 'partakers of the Divine nature'.

I think that the Hebrew (Torah) lends itself more easily to this understanding than the Greek (Nomos), though this may just be b/c I don't fully understand the word Nomos. In Hebrew, however, the commandments have a more existential than legal meaning. There are no 'ten commandments' in Hebrew, it is more like 'ten word realities'. So, 'thou shalt not murder' would more appropriately be translated as 'No Murder' - an existential statement.

With reference to the Sabbath in particular, it is a Jewish teaching that the Messiah would bring an 'Eternal Shabbat'. St. Gregory Palamas and others actually speak about this very subject.

All this being said, it is still a bit confusing as to why the Jewish Christians of the first (few?) centuries continued to be Torah observant in the sense of actually physically carrying out the commandments.

Please correct me on any of the above points!

Alexander Vernet
15-07-2010, 06:51 PM
Of course, every day is a day of worship. The Sabbath is not primarily a day of worship but a day of 'rest'. Sunday is a day of creation. It is also important to note that if the early Christians stopped doing work on Sunday, it would immediately identify them as Christians and make them targets for persecution (before, of course, the reforms of St. Constantine the Great). As I understand it, Sabbath for the Jewish Christians of the first centuries continued to be a day of rest (on the Sabbath, which is still Saturday) and they gathered together in secret on Sunday, the day of the new creation.

Kosta
17-07-2010, 02:23 AM
Dear friends,

I have been speaking with a friend who is "Messianic Jewish" and who reads the OT and gets tripped up on the commands that God gives Moses "to keep the Sabbath as an everlasting covenant between him and his people." He says that God gave his people the Sabbath to "remember creation and the exodus." To me, this was also a stumbling block before I came to Orthodoxy (I was a Messianic Jew before Orthodoxy, that was my last stop). I have heard about the "8th day" and the Lord's Day in terms of the New Creation, but the thing is the Messianic Jews read the Apostolic fathers and find them to be "anti-semetic" because they are (apparently) all against Sabbath keeping. My question is this: what is the meaning of the Sabbath, why does the Church not ordain it to rest? Does the Church ordain Sunday to rest? How does the Church understand the 3rd commandment? What were the Apostolic fathers actually speaking about? And why is the OT full of references to the importance of the Sabbath and keeping it eternally?

As others have pointed out the Sabbbath was fulfilled in Christ. How so? Because it was on the Sabbath that Christ rested in the tomb for the entire day. And the Exodus is a type for the Sabbath rest of Christ. As the jews passed over the red sea to the promised land, Christ passed over from this life to the eternal life, freeing the OT saints, as well as us, from death and bondage to paradise.