Could we please discuss the nativity fast? I'm curious to know more about how it's meant to prepare us for the feast, about what all should go into it, about its history, etcetera.
Our priest is pretty "quiet" about these things!
Thanks,
Xenia
Dear Xenia,
If you have not already read Matthew Steenberg's commentary On the Nativity Fast: Preparation of the Soul you can click on the link below.
{http://www.monachos.net/liturgics/nativity_fast.shtml}
In Christ,
Matthew P.
Thank you, Matthew.
One question : how do Orthodox Americans keep this fast when Thanksgiving comes around?
Thanksgiving is a wonderful idea - giving thanks to God for all the good things he provides. However it falls in the Nativity Fast period and this might be a problem for those Orthodox who live in America. How do you cope with this?
Effie
The majority of Orthodox Christians in America have either been given a dispensation to feast on Thanksgiving or seem to do so anyway! However, there are still many Orthodox who do keep the fast.
I think it is important to note that one can give thanks to God without feasting and/or breaking the fast.
Aaron
Effie,
Ultimatly,the decision can only be made by the individal. However, it is important to take into consideration the fact that there are very few days in America set aside for giving thanks much less spending time with family. It is much better to error on the side of love by "compromising" the fast, than to set ourselves apart and possibly offened those whom we love that may not be Orthodox Christians, or those who are Orthodox and yet choose to have the traditional Thanksgiving dinner. God will always bless our intentions, rather than to what degree we keep the fast.
May Our Lord bless you and your family especially on this day.
John
Let us remember that obedience is the key virtue of fasting: obedience to God through mastery over fallen passions via obedience to the Church, her canons, her priests. Obedience is also a necessary prerequisite for true thanksgiving, for unless our thankfulness is borne out of an obedient heart, it is false thankfulness, sincere neither to ourselves nor to God.
The decision on how the celebration of Thanksgiving should relate to one's practice during the Nativity Fast should be taken under the advice of one's priest, not one's self.
INXC, Matthew
"...there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure." (2 Corinthians 12:7)
This Thanksgiving holiday, let us ask for the intercessions of St. Paul who did not succumb to the devilish buffet.
"The Americans have established a Thanksgiving Day to celebrate the fact that the Pilgrim Fathers reached America. The English might very well establish another Thanksgiving Day; to celebrate the happy fact that the Pilgrim Fathers left England."
- G.K. Chesterton
What religious beliefs did the Pilgrims have, that made them so intolerable to the English authorities? The following is a list of some of the religious issues of the day, and the Pilgrims' beliefs regarding them.
Predestination.
The Pilgrims believed that before the foundation of the world, God predestined to make the world, man, and all things. He also predestined, at that time, who would be saved, and who would be damned. Only those God elected would receive God's grace, and would have faith. There was nothing an individual could do during their life that would cause them to be saved (or damned), since God had already decided who was going to be saved before the creation of the world. However, God would not have chosen blatant sinners to be his elect; and therefore those who were godly were likely to be the ones God had elected to be saved.
Sacraments and Popery.
To the Pilgrims, there were only two sacraments: baptism and the Lord's Supper. The other sacraments (Confession, Penance, Confirmation, Ordination, Marriage, Confession, Last Rites) of the Church of England and Roman Catholic church were inventions of man, had no scriptural basis, and were therefore superstitions, to the point of being heretical. The Pilgrims opposed mass, and considered marriage a civil affair to be handled by the State (not a religious sacrament). The legitimacy of the Pope, the Saints, and the church hierarchy were rejected, as was the veneration of relics. Icons and religious symbols such as crosses, statues, stain-glass windows, fancy architecture, and other worldly manifestations of religion were rejected as a form of idolatry. It was the rejection of the authority of the church hierarchy, and of the sacraments, that was the primary cause of conflict between the Pilgrims and the Church of England.
Church Organization
The church of the Pilgrims was organized around five officers: pastor, teacher, elder, deacon, and deaconess (sometimes called the "church widow"). However, none of the five offices was considered essential to the church. The Pastor was an ordained minister whose responsibility was to see to the religious life of the congregation. John Robinson was the pastor of the Pilgrims, but was never able to get to America before his death in 1625. The Teacher was also an ordained minister who was responsible for the instruction of the congregation. The Pilgrims apparently never had anyone to fill that position. The Elder was a lay-person responsible for church government, and he was also the church's eyes and ears, assisting the Pastor and Teacher in admonishing the congregation. William Brewster was the Elder for the Plymouth church. The Deacon collected offerings, and attended to the needs of the poor and elderly. John Carver and Samuel Fuller both were deacons during their life. The Deaconess attended the sick and poor, and often played the role of midwife for the congregation. The Deaconess of the early Plymouth church is not named, but may have been Bridget Fuller. The church building itself had no significance to the Pilgrims, and was usually called simply the "meeting place" or "meetinghouse". The meetinghouse was kept drab, and had no religious depictions or icons, to avoid the sin of idolatry.
Infant Baptism.
The Pilgrims believed baptism was the sacrament which wiped away Original Sin, and was a covenant with Christ and his chosen people (as circumcision had been to God and the Israelites), and therefore children should be baptized as infants. This was in opposition to the Anabaptists, who believed that baptism was essentially an initiation ceremony into the churchhood of believers, and therefore could only be administered to believing adults who understood the meaning of the ceremony. The Pilgrims, on the other hand, believed that "baptism now, as circumcision of old, is the seal of the covenant of God," and they felt that groups like the Anabaptists who did not baptize their infants were depriving Christ's flock of all its young lambs. They further believed that at least one parent must be of the faith for the child to be baptized into the church.
Holy Days and Religious Holidays.
The Pilgrims faithfully observed the Sabbath, and did not work on Sunday. Even when the Pilgrims were exploring Cape Cod, to the Mayflower crew's dismay, they stopped everything and stayed in camp on Sunday to keep the Sabbaths. The Pilgrims did not celebrate Christmas and Easter. These holidays were invented by man to memorialize Jesus, and are not prescribed by the Bible or celebrated by the early Christian churches, and therefore cannot be considered Holy days. "It seems too much for any mortal man to appoint, or make an anniversary memorial" for Christ, taught the Pilgrims' pastor John Robinson.
Marriage.
The Pilgrims considered marriage a civil affair, not to be handled by the church ministers, but instead by civil magistrates. Marriage was a contract, mutually agreed upon by a man and a woman. Marriage was created by God for the benefit of man's natural and spiritual life. Marriages were considered important for two main reasons: procreation of children to increase Christ's flock; and to avoid the sin of adultery. Pastor John Robinson taught that the important characteristics to find in a spouse are (1) godliness, and (2) similarity--in age, beliefs, estate, disposition, inclinations, and affections. In the marriage, "the wife is specially required a reverend subjection in all lawful things to her husband," and the husband is "to give honor to the wife," as the Lord requires "the love of the husband to his wife must be like Christ's to his church."
The Bible and Books.
The Pilgrims primarily used the Geneva edition of the Bible, which contained a number of Puritan-tending footnotes and interpretation. In response, King James had his own edition of the Bible translated and published in 1611 for use by the Church of England. The Pilgrims used the psalm-book written by Henry Ainsworth, which was a more true and literal translation of the Psalms, whereas the Church of England tended to use the Sternhold and Hopkins psalter which was more poetic but less true to Scripture. The Church of England used the "Book of Common Prayer," whereas the Pilgrims strongly opposed scripted reciting of other men's prayers. The most commonly-owned book in early Plymouth Colony (outside of the Bible and psalm book) was John Dod's Exposition on the Ten Commandments, followed by pastor John Robinson's Observations Divine and Moral.
More Here: http://www.mayflowerhistory.com/History/religion.php
For those Americans whose Churches use the old calendar, Thanksgiving came the day before the start of the Fast. Looking through my calendar, I noticed that on the new calendar December 25 this year we can have fish as well as wine and oil which will make things a little easier for some of us converts when we have Christmas with our families.
George
George, I've been thinking about this old calendar/new calendar business. From all I have read I can't say that I agree that we should have switched to the new calendar in the first place but it does mean that we can celebrate Christian feasts with the rest of the world. On the other hand, how confusing it must be for young children who experience "two Christmases" for example.
It's easy for us here in Greece because, as I've already mentioned in older messages the sense of unity and love at both Christmas and Easter is unbelievable. Each of these celebrations has it's own "flavour" if you will. At Easter the weather is usually mild and long lines of people streaming from the church after midnight with their lit candles held carefully in front of them while being carried home, has to be seen to be believed.
Christmas on the other hand is usually icy, but the warmth and love when you arrive at church on Christmas morning, dressed in your best, with happy children running around in the early hours of the morning, is unbelievable. After the service everyone goes back to their own homes (no visiting! - it's traditional that the Christmas morning breakfast should be eaten in one own's home as the Easter midnight feast is) and breaks their fast with a special Christmas breakfast. Up here in north Greece we have special foods that are traditionally served on Christmast morning, as do all the other regions in Greece. The sun has usually made it's appearance by the time breakfast is over and it's a blessing watching the house light up on Christmas morning - especially as we are all mellow with good food!
What happens when you live in a country where nearly everyone else has already celebrated Christmas a couple of weeks earlier? How do young children feel when their friends at school can't enjoy their Christmases with them?
I have a friend who is new calendar while his wife is old calendar. He told me that it was her decision to change and that he respects it but that it has created some minor problems.
How do others cope with both these situations i.e. their children's feelings at Christmas and relationships such as the one I described above?
Effie
Dear Friends,
Hoping not to sound too "Pastoral" in my answer and thus break one of the new rules, with much trepidation, I would like to say a few words. As Mr. Steenburg correctly points out, obedience to Christ and His Church should always come first.
I belong to the Russian Church Abroad, so we always try to be obedient to the fasting rules of the Church. Of course, there are those who don't, and we do not judge them.
The American day of Thanksgiving was promulgated by President Abraham Lincoln at the behest of American citizens who came to him and suggested such a day be set aside for giving thanks to God even though there was so much loss and suffering from the Civil War.
It can be said that Thanksgiving is the one American Holiday in which Americans give thanks to God for all he has provided them with. It is a time of charitable giving, when the homeless and the poor are provided for. It is a day for the Family, and people go home again, to share memories-joys and sorrows.
when I have had converts come to me and ask me what to do, since their families have invited them, for Thanksgiving, and being new to Orthodoxy, they did not want to offend their relatives and appear to have joined some weird cult, I always told them to go and to be with their loved ones. The Holy Apostle St. Paul tells us that if we are at the home of non-believers,and they offer us food, we should not shame them by mentioning our restrictions, but gratefully eat what they put before us. In Romans chapter 14, verses 1-12, St. Paul speaks about how we ought not judge our neigbor in regard to what he eats.
However, as Mathew say, our first thought must be to please God. If we are invited to home of close relatives, none of whom are Orthopox, we should ask our priest, and do as he tells us. Laypeople can never grant themselves and "economia," but should always get guidance and a blessing.
Knowing the fasting rules, one should not have Thanksgiving in his own home if the Christmas Lent has already begun. Last year, many of our people celebrated Thanksgiving the Sunday before the Fast and and on the actual day, if they were not too far from relatives, went to visit them and brought a Lenten dessert for everybody, thus, they celebrated, the fasted, they spent time with their family and still remained obedient. I do feel however, that this should be limited to close relatives, not just some friends.
On Western Christmas, our converts go to their family's home and take a baked fish or shrimp dish, and usually find lots of food they can eat. I usually suggest that they take all of their gifts except one really special one, and open them with their family. Free from the rush and stress of Christmas, for Nativity on the Old Calendar, Orthodox Christians can spend a peaceful and spiritual day by going to Liturgy, receiving communion, and coming home, have a festive meal and open that one very special present. Many Russians have an open house that day, and people goaround and sing carols and share a little food.
We live in such a pluralistic society, yet we can easily keep the obedience to our Holy Orthodox Chirch, while sharing days of joy and celebration with non-Orthodox friends and family.
Forgive me, I have spoken too much.
Fr. A.
My Dear Friends,
As of late, I have been flooded with so much Spam that out of fifty messages, fifteen are for me.
Please send any e-mail messages for me to:
Ieropolskii@netscape.net
Ieropolskii is the Slavonic for Hieropolis, the city of which St. Averkios was bishop.
God bless, and may all of you have a spiritually benefiicial lent. This Fast is not so very hard, because it does not get very strict until we get closer to the Feast. This is, however, a time of great temptation, for all around us are Christmas parties, dinners, office parties, and so on. We can still try do do our best, for if we have to go to a party-say something having to do with work, we can keep to the spirit of the Fast by being moderate-no alcohol, keep to chips and things -if it is a formal dinner, do the best you can. It is not just the strictness, but the spirit.
Let us not salve our conscience by giving a few dollars at the Salvation Army kettle, but make a real sacrifice in time and money for the poor; do volunteer work at a soup kitchen, help deliver food to shut ins, find out if there are Orthodox people in hospitals or nursing homes, and try to visit them, bringing a small gift-the company at this holiday season will be such a consolation to them. Give money to animal shelters, for abandoned animals are God's creatures. And do not neglect that relative who is hard to be around; show them mercy and invite them to your home.
Do not spend lavishly for gifts soon to be forgotten, but remember the Church and Christ's poor. If you can do even a few of these things for the sake of Christ, you will notice that you will have one of the most peaceful and blessed Christmas seasons you will have ever had, this I can and do promise you, in the name of our Saviour.
Respectfully
hieromonk Averky
who loves all of you.
Hi Effie,
Yes, the calendar issue can be quite a problem. I agree that it would be nice to have feasts at the same time as others around the world do, though of course, even the new calendar churches have Pascha according to the old calendar. I don't know too much about the reasons why and the pros cons etc behind the issue, but so far as I know, using the new calendar makes for a messy typikon, and sometimes the Apostle's Fast just disappears...
Not being in the position of having children, I am not sure what it would be/ must be like for them to have two Christmases. You must know though how thoroughly commercialised Christmas is here these days (and I expect the same in Australia). It is a mega buy-fest so far as the shops and media are concerned. At a friend's place, I saw she had a magazine for people with pre-school children. Looking through it, it had a big Christmas section, but nowhere was Christ or Jesus mentioned. Instead it was all eating, presents and Father Christmas.
I guess if I had a wife and children, we would have new calendar Dec. 25 as a celebration with family (who are non-Orthodox), and have a special time with each other, and then on January 7 celebrate the Nativity at Church.
George
Dear George, I offer a minor correction to something you wrote in a recent post, which you might find of interest. You stated:
Actually, this is not in fact the case. The determination of the date of Pascha is a separate issue from that of the old and revised calendars. The Paschal date is set by computations based on the equinox, the moon, and the conclusion of Passover, entirely independent from any calendar date (Old or New). Pascha always falls on the same date for Old and New Calendrists precisely because the determination of the Great Feast is not dependent upon the calendar.I agree that it would be nice to have feasts at the same time as others around the world do, though of course, even the new calendar churches have Pascha according to the old calendar.
INXC, Matthew
Father
Averky, I just read your message. (no.556) I had typed and sent my message to be approved before yours appeared.
Thank you for such a lovely message. It proves just how easy it is for minor problems to be solved when common sense and love are involved.
I thought when reading the messages how nice it would if we had a Thanksgiving Day here in Greece – nothing to do with the Pilgrims or anything of course. It then came to me that each day should be one of thanksgiving and that our Liturgy is, in effect, just that. A special thanksgiving day would still be welcome though.
Effie
In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. I Thess.5:18
Labor to acquire thanksgiving toward God for everything, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you, and then you will find peace.
St. Barsanuphius
Dear Effie,
As you say, every day we need to thank God that He granted us one more day to repent and to try again. If we can one day just achieve that point where we can from the depth of our soul say, "Lord have mercy," then like the Good Thief, we will gain salvation in but a moment. When I think of the Good Thief Dismas looking with tender compassion and love at our innocent Saviour, asking with such simple faith and deep humility only to be remembered in His kingdom, and seeing that humility and faith, our suffering Lord gave him a promise beyond his dreams-that he would be with Him forever in Paradise.
But getting to that point is most difficult, for it involves struggle, attaining virtues and loving God with all our heart, mind and soul. And, to love our Brother. I often sigh and want to weep, for how often I judge my brother, when my sins are much worse. I have no patience, and too often overlook the sufferings of other.
I pray that this Lent we will look around us and see to see the image of Christ in others, and love them, respect them, and help them as much as we can.
All around us there is so much suffering,hunger and want, and we rush by and never give anything but ourselves a second thought. As the days of my life grow shorter, I look back with sorrow at the many opportunities I lost, and hope that in that time still given to me, I can do even a few small things for others.
Lent is a time for preparation,and our hearts and souls should ready themselves for that Day which is always Today, the Nativity in the Flesh of our Lord.He is the perfect example for all of us of a real Man: He was obedient, humble, and meek of heart. Let us look to him, and crying out, say, "Lord have mercy on me a sinner," and at last, really mean it.
God bless you and your family, dear Effie; God bless us and have mercy on us.
Sinful
Fr. A.
Father Averky, it's strange how we can come to know a person from what they write. Perhaps it's easier than when we are face to face with someone because usually, no matter how some people might try to make some sort of an impression on others with the things they write, we usually, at some point or other, allow our true selves to show.
You have given me insights into your personality many times -the impression that has remained is of a very human person who has made me think more carefully about so many things. You seem to be someone who always looks deeply into himself and is not afraid to acknowledge the very human failings that all of us have - but which so many of us refuse to admit.
The simplicity and just plain love is so many of your messages has been a source of inspiration for me. As I am sure it has been for many others on this forum. Thank you so much.
Effie
My Beloved Effie,
Your words are too kind. Like all of us, I have spent the better part of my life rushing around trying to "accomplish" things; I wanted to change things, better situations, to determine matters, and at times, even the lives of others.
In all of this I was overlooking one person; myself. I took no time to see my terrible sins and failings. Having as all of us, very big blind spots, I could not see those aspects of myself which were spiritually destructive to myelf others. Of course, like any of us, there were, over the years, times when I did see the depth of my sinfulnes, and even made an effort to change, but all too soon I had I had forgotten my good resolve and had fallen back into the muck.
Finally, in His great mercy, God visted me with severe illness, and in these nearly eight years of manifest suffering I have had to look at myself. Now, all ambition, all desires to effect or change things, all needs to accomplish such and such are gone. All save the sincere desire to repent for my sins and to grow closer to my Saviour. When you are faced with death and you know that it just a matter of time, and not so long from now, you must look into yourself. It took feeling so badly that dying would be such a blessing to realize that one soon there will be no more time, and that I better use that time wisely. If only I could have had these thoughts forty years ago.
As seen even here on Monachos, how easily I fall back into my old passions of impatience, judging and anger-yet, I truly try to repent, and to love, and I am always aware of the mercy and patience granted to me by the members of this forum. I am always overwhelmed by the patience that God has for me.
From you also I have gained much and from Owen, and Richard, and Rebecca, and Daniel, from our wonderful moderator Matthew, for all of you on Monachos have kept me going when I wanted to give up. The common bond of this community, whether one is Orthodox or not is a real desire to love God and to come to greater knowledge of our faith and our lives according to that faith. Yes, now and again we fall into bickering, and we have to be reprimanded by our Moderator, but our worst is nothing compared to some lists, which are veritable jurisdictional battlefields wherein love and charity are rarely even a consideration.
Effie, if you have seen even a hint of good in me, it is because you, my dear sister, and all the members of this community who have shown me love, understanding and patience. I especially thank Matthew Steenburg for his Christian love, wisdom and patience for having provided me and all of us with this forum which has brought so many people, living thousands of miles apart, into a community which has become a small global family. May God continue to bless us in this good efort.
Much love,
Fr. A.
Dear Fr. A:
One time I came across this quote, "Keep struggling, hope only in God. We must not despair when we struggle and continuously see nothing but the slightest progress. We all do nearly nothing --- some a little more, some a little less. When Christ sees our little effort, He gives us an analogous token; and so our nearly nothing becomes valuable, and we can see a little progress. For this reason we must not despair, but hope in God." (Blessed Elder Paisios the Athonite, +1994)
These words ring as true as your own that I've been privileged to receive from you and have read posted on these various threads. I've taken what you've written, as has been revealed to you by God, into my heart and am attempted (albeight poorly) to live them out. Hope in God, trust in Him only, and pray/pray/pray. If we could but keep this in our hearts and live it out minute by minute, the bickering, disunity, lack of concord would be healed in but a moment. Any "difference" we may perceive in another would pale to nothingness because the love of God through us would give us the grace to see Him in them. As we do in you dear Father.
It is simple. God is simple. We have one need only...and that is for Him alone.
Thank you for that continual reminder. May God bless you and grant you His comfort, grace, and peace in your struggle. My feeble prayers and gratitude are with you.
Sincerely in Christ, Trudy
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